Author Topic: Walkable Streets: A Lesson for the JEDC  (Read 10691 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Walkable Streets: A Lesson for the JEDC
« on: February 27, 2009, 05:00:00 AM »
Walkable Streets: A Lesson for the JEDC



Walkable communities have a healthy respect for people of all abilities, and has appropriate ramps, medians, refuges, crossings of driveways, sidewalks on all streets where needed, benches, shade and other basic amenities to make walking feasible and enjoyable for everyone.

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http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/1023

kellypope

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Re: Walkable Streets: A Lesson for the JEDC
« Reply #1 on: February 27, 2009, 05:16:06 AM »
Don't forget the T in Boston. When I did a summer program at the SMFA, that middle part of the road along the streetcar lane was a godsend.

Question: Is there something we can do about the glass in bike lanes? I mean, taking a day to go about and clean it up myself is something I would definitely do, but it's hard to put out the message that a bike is a method of transportation and not just a recreation when I can only ride on the sidewalks out of concern for my tires.

I don't know. Maybe this summer I'll spend Sundays cleaning up around my neighborhood, getting the mess from weekend partiers cleaned up. The city probably won't send someone out, the way the times are.
Have you called Councilman Warren Jones to thank him for sponsoring the human rights bill? Do it now! Super quick and easy--plus, it feels better than leaving angry messages with bad guys. Call his office at (904) 630-1395

gatorback

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Re: Walkable Streets: A Lesson for the JEDC
« Reply #2 on: February 27, 2009, 07:23:58 AM »
It's late February so they will probably send out the leaf vacuums if they haven't already.  When that happens your glass needs to be where it will get swept up. I always timed the racking up of my leaves to when those big sweepers come out about this time of the year. ;)
'As a sinner I am truly conscious of having often offended my Creator and I beg him to forgive me, but as a Queen and Sovereign, I am aware of no fault or offence for which I have to render account to anyone here below.'   Mary, queen of Scots to her jailer, Sir Amyas Paulet; October 1586

tufsu1

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Re: Walkable Streets: A Lesson for the JEDC
« Reply #3 on: February 27, 2009, 08:39:12 AM »
There is virtually no data supporting the notion that installing  a raised median (vs. a middle turn lane) leads to an increase in speed....believe me, I've looked.

Also, it should be noted that the medians in the Arlington Road example do not meet FDOT's preferred minimum of 16' (the Green Book does allow for much smaller medians)...this might explain why there are no bike lanes.

kellypope

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Re: Walkable Streets: A Lesson for the JEDC
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2009, 08:42:14 AM »
I busted my bike in the warm days of December. I haven't been in Jax since late January, so I can't say anything about the roads now. But I'd still like to have the roads as safe as possible for bike traffic, and waiting for the city to do it just ain't my style.
Have you called Councilman Warren Jones to thank him for sponsoring the human rights bill? Do it now! Super quick and easy--plus, it feels better than leaving angry messages with bad guys. Call his office at (904) 630-1395

thelakelander

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Re: Walkable Streets: A Lesson for the JEDC
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2009, 09:52:50 AM »
There is virtually no data supporting the notion that installing a raised median (vs. a middle turn lane) leads to an increase in speed....believe me, I've looked.

This would be oriented towards local streets (ex. San Marco Blvd, just south of I-95), but how about a raised median vs. not having a middle turn lane (or median) at all?  Perhaps increased speed is a result of limiting pedestrian movement through a combination of inaccessible medians, no crosswalks and no pedestrian crossing siding? 

Quote
Also, it should be noted that the medians in the Arlington Road example do not meet FDOT's preferred minimum of 16' (the Green Book does allow for much smaller medians)...this might explain why there are no bike lanes.

I'm confused?  Since this stretch of Arlington Road is not maintained by FDOT, bike lanes could not be added?
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tufsu1

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Re: Walkable Streets: A Lesson for the JEDC
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2009, 11:34:12 AM »
There is virtually no data supporting the notion that installing a raised median (vs. a middle turn lane) leads to an increase in speed....believe me, I've looked.

This would be oriented towards local streets (ex. San Marco Blvd, just south of I-95), but how about a raised median vs. not having a middle turn lane (or median) at all?  Perhaps increased speed is a result of limiting pedestrian movement through a combination of inaccessible medians, no crosswalks and no pedestrian crossing siding? 

Quote
Also, it should be noted that the medians in the Arlington Road example do not meet FDOT's preferred minimum of 16' (the Green Book does allow for much smaller medians)...this might explain why there are no bike lanes.

I'm confused?  Since this stretch of Arlington Road is not maintained by FDOT, bike lanes could not be added?

The Green Book generaly recommends medians no less than 10' wide (incluing the curbs)....and bike lanes would be a minimum of 4 feet (5' is preferred) on each side....looking at the pic, I don't think there is room for both.

stjr

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Re: Walkable Streets: A Lesson for the JEDC
« Reply #7 on: February 27, 2009, 12:38:02 PM »
Nice pix.  Very inspirational.  It tells me Jax is way, way, behind almost every other community in the world of any note.  Big and small, in and out of the U.S., it looks like nearly everyone has a rail system of some sort.  And we are no where close to getting it done based on the present agendas.

We just have the laughingstock of the transit world, the riderless $ky-high-way.  As Charlie Brown would say... "sighhhh!"
Hey!  Whatever happened to just plain ol' COMMON SENSE!!

thelakelander

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Re: Walkable Streets: A Lesson for the JEDC
« Reply #8 on: February 27, 2009, 12:41:21 PM »


Judging from the 7' wide proposed for Bay Street, it appears that the city is not following the Green Book's recommendations.  Nevertheless, I guess if a corridor is not wide enough for a median, parallel parking, bike lanes, etc., and if the goal is walkability & promoting alternative transit options, the median should probably be the one to go.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

stjr

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Re: Walkable Streets: A Lesson for the JEDC
« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2009, 12:47:02 PM »
Lake, if an 11 foot lane is acceptable when a double lane, then maybe the single lane each way option could be 11.75 feet rather than 13. 5 feet.  This would give 2 x 1.75, or 3.5 feet to the median making it 10.5 feet.

How's that?
Hey!  Whatever happened to just plain ol' COMMON SENSE!!

thelakelander

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Re: Walkable Streets: A Lesson for the JEDC
« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2009, 01:01:27 PM »
Stjr, for me, the width really doesn't matter as long as they are designed to promote walkability or other forms of sustainable transit use without becoming a barrier.

In Bay Street's case, if JTA really wants a streetcar line down that corridor, then that particular median should be wide enough to accomodate track.  If its being done for beautification purposes, just make sure its designed to accomodate pedestrian use.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

tufsu1

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Re: Walkable Streets: A Lesson for the JEDC
« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2009, 02:31:30 PM »

Judging from the 7' wide proposed for Bay Street, it appears that the city is not following the Green Book's recommendations.  Nevertheless, I guess if a corridor is not wide enough for a median, parallel parking, bike lanes, etc., and if the goal is walkability & promoting alternative transit options, the median should probably be the one to go.

they probably are still ok...the Green Book allows (just discourages) medians less than 10'....we have proposed a 4' "traffic separator" on SW 13th Street in Gainesville next to the new Shands Hospital....could have probably done a regular median, but FDOT shrank the lane widths down a few years ago to add bike lanes....all in all a good thing!

mrmakersmark

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Re: Walkable Streets: A Lesson for the JEDC
« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2009, 04:32:58 PM »
The Green Book generally recommends medians no less than 10' wide (including the curbs)....and bike lanes would be a minimum of 4 feet (5' is preferred) on each side....looking at the pic, I don't think there is room for both.

The minimum requirement for bike lanes is 4-ft. and Arlington Road has 4 12-travel lanes and a 12-ft. median.  The oak trees also required this width so there will eventually be a canopy on this stretch of the road.  If bike lanes were put it, then the city would have had to rip up the curb, adjust the drainage, and remove a sidewalk on one side of the street.  I wish there could be bike lanes on every road, but I guess we have to live within our limitations.

thelakelander

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Re: Walkable Streets: A Lesson for the JEDC
« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2009, 05:01:53 PM »
Unlike most of Jax, Arlington has a pretty good grid network of streets.  Its too late now, but we could have just went without a median or gone from 4 to 2 travel lanes along that stretch.  After all, traffic is not heavy along that stretch of Arlington Road.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

kellypope

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Re: Walkable Streets: A Lesson for the JEDC
« Reply #14 on: February 28, 2009, 09:39:28 AM »
Don't know exactly where this should be posted, but here's some interesting news for pedestrians: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/26/times-square-to-be-turned_n_170232.html
Have you called Councilman Warren Jones to thank him for sponsoring the human rights bill? Do it now! Super quick and easy--plus, it feels better than leaving angry messages with bad guys. Call his office at (904) 630-1395