Elements of Urbanism: Tampa

[Metro Jacksonville]

Elements of Urbanism: Tampa



A brief tour around the urban core of Central Florida's largest city: Tampa. Downtown is the second largest employment center in the city, behind the Westshore Financial District.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/964

[hanjin1]

yep, we suck

[tufsu1]

not true...I've lived in both cities (Tampa from 1999-2005, Jax since)....certain parts of Tampa were doing really well...but the real estate crash put a stop to that.

All things considered, there is more potential here in Jax. to do things right....especially on a regional scale....the City of Tampa is fighting a losing battle with Hillsborough County (the county has twice the pop. of the city) and the then there's the whole Tampa/Hillsborough vs. St. pete/Clearwater/Pinellas thing....and let's not forget the cluster that is known as Pasco County!

[heights unknown]

Jacksonville doesn't suck (completely) but has fallen behind Tampa a bit; one thing that sticks out is Tampa is basically similar to Jacksonville relative to the CBD, nice skyline and all of those tall buildings, but nothing is happening there (CBD).  Outside of Channelside and Ybor, downtown Tampa is a graveyard outside of 9-5 during the work days/week.

Heights Unknown

[Ocklawaha]

I find it interesting that we compaire Ybor and Channelside in Downtown Tampa's attractions and nightlife, then consider 5-Points, San Marco, St. Nicholas, Park and King as NOT IN JACKSONVILLE!

Also in attractions - the Streetcar was left out. Sorry but (T.R.A.I.N.) The Tourist Railroad Association, puts their "attraction ridership" as high as 1/2 of all boardings.

Sometimes it's how you look at their success... Is the STREETCAR half empty or half full?

Oh, almost forgot, we don't have one.

PEYTON - PULL YOUR HEAD OUT!

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

Its really not a comparison at all.  This article was nothing more than a photo tour around some of urban Tampa's nieghborhoods.  If I would have had more time, I would have visited Tampa Heights, West Tampa, Hyde Park's residential sections and Davis Island.  All of these Elements of Urbanism articles are intended to give Jacksonville residents a brief look at whats been going on in our peer cities.

Anyway, many may associate the Channel District with DT Tampa because they are directly adjacent to each other.  Ybor is a mile away, but its connected to DT via streetcar, thus creating a nice line of urban development along its path between the neighborhoods.  Here, spots like Five Points may be close to DT, but its disconnected and not really promoted.  If we can provide a strong link between our core neighborhoods and DT, the viewpoint towards DT Jax will change as well.

[Ocklawaha]

BINGO!

Thanks Lake!

OCKLAWAHA

[thelakelander]

not true...I've lived in both cities (Tampa from 1999-2005, Jax since)....certain parts of Tampa were doing really well...but the real estate crash put a stop to that.

All things considered, there is more potential here in Jax. to do things right....especially on a regional scale....the City of Tampa is fighting a losing battle with Hillsborough County (the county has twice the pop. of the city) and the then there's the whole Tampa/Hillsborough vs. St. pete/Clearwater/Pinellas thing....and let's not forget the cluster that is known as Pasco County!

One of the things I love about the Tampa/St. Pete/Clearwater MSA , is its diversity.  If we begin to overlook the municipal boundary limits, its clear that that the area is one large urban area with a variety of things to do.  Its also more than twice the size of Urban Jax for what its worth.  There is a lot of work that needs to take place in Tampa, but the city is on the right path.  15 years ago, this assessment would have been a questionable one.

As for Jax, we have all the potential in the world.  We just have to find a way to get our heads out of the sand.

[thelakelander]

Speaking of Tampa's streetcar line there are a couple of things that we can learn from their system:

1. Rail does bring economic development and create long term jobs.

Tampa's 2.5 mile line has stimulated over $1 billion in transit oriented development over a five year period.  That development includes restaurants, office buildings, hotels, condos, lofts, galleries and retail stores.  All of those places employ people.  When we talk about investing in transportation as a part of an economic stimulus package, the long term creation of jobs is just as important as the jobs stimulated by the project's construction process.


2. A system should appeal to residents as well as tourists

Tampa's streetcar appeals to tourist instead of residents.  While Tampa's goal may have been to appeal to tourists, it would not have hurt if it worked as a viable mass transit option for residents as well.  It was a mistake to not run that thing into the heart of DT or close to UT with the initial phase.  Ridership would have been a lot higher which would make expansion an easier sell.  Anything done here should not only loop around DT (like the skyway), it needs to connect with everyday popular destinations in the urban core (ie. Five Points, Farmer's Market, Sports District, etc.).  A system here should also be well integrated into the city's overall mass transit system.

[GatorShane]

I look at this and wonder what the hell are we doing? Tampa is miles ahead of us because they have leaders that think outside of the box. Do we have anyone in our city hall like that? Wake up Jacksonville!

[tufsu1]

once again, Tampa is not miles ahead of Jax!

Here's the timeline for what's happened in the Channelside area...

The Aquarium was built around 1994....for 5 years there was nothing else in the area....the new cruise terminal (#2) opened in 1999....followed by the Channelside shops in 2001, which struggled for at least 3 years due to a lack of activity when cruise ships weren't in town.

The streetcar line opened sometime around 2002....and was immediately derided as a huge waste of $...after all, it cost $52 million (including the trolley barn) and took 22 minutes to go 3 miles!

Then, 10 years after creating the Channelside Community Redevelopment Area, a few condo developers signed on....and then as the real estate market took off, so did Channelside residential options.

Of course, now that the market has tanked, more than 2/3 of the condo units sit empty and several of the buildings have been auctioned off for far less than it cost to build them.

Bottom line.....the Channel District has been a 15 year work in progress....and Jax. has been trying to do similar things in the Brooklyn area for about 3 years....so come back in 2020 and seee what it looks like!

[heights unknown]

Judging from tufsu1's previous post, it was basically a "luck of the draw" with Tampa; the timing of everything was right on the button; it appears that Jax started to want to peak right at the end of the real estate boom when everything was beginning to falter and very quickly later "went for bust."  For a while it looked like we would have at least six to seven new developments, including high rise towers downtown.

It appears that Jax is always on the tail end of the prosperity trail, and by the time the City or City leaders figure out what's needed, the world or the nation moves on to something else that is not in the City's interest or something negative or adverse happens to cancel out that progress...thus Jax losing out and not following through.  What a shame.

Can you imagine if some developers came in interested in Lavilla and Brooklyn, and all of a sudden we have skyscrapers and highrises gracing those areas (similar to Brickell in Miami) and the area now known as downtown becomes "old downtown?"  Would be nice.

Heights Unknown

[thelakelander]

We also should not forget about the importance of sticking to a long range plan.

DT Jax has been in continuous redevelopment for over 50 years.  However, the synergy that you see in cities like Indianapolis, Columbus, Charlotte and Nashville has not materialized because we can't stick to a long range plan.  If we can't stick to a plan, Brooklyn may be worse off like LaVilla.

[thelakelander]

I look at this and wonder what the hell are we doing? Tampa is miles ahead of us because they have leaders that think outside of the box. Do we have anyone in our city hall like that? Wake up Jacksonville!

Tampa does have the extra benefit of being a part of a larger metropolitan area that is closely located to others (like Orlando, Lakeland and Sarasota).  Its also a more architecturally progressive community that does a pretty good job of promoting and marketing its history (ie. Ybor City and the cigar industry flavor).  However, I would not describe Tampa's leadership as progressive.  From my experience, in many cases, it takes Orlando to deal with an issue, forcing Tampa's leaders to attempt to keep up (regional competition).  Locally, we're pretty isolated so, to a degree, we keep our heads in the sand when it comes to embracing market changes and new trends.

[jeh1980]

I look at this and wonder what the hell are we doing? Tampa is miles ahead of us because they have leaders that think outside of the box. Do we have anyone in our city hall like that? Wake up Jacksonville!

Tampa does have the extra benefit of being a part of a larger metropolitan area that is closely located to others (like Orlando, Lakeland and Sarasota).  Its also a more architecturally progressive community that does a pretty good job of promoting and marketing its history (ie. Ybor City and the cigar industry flavor).  However, I would not describe Tampa's leadership as progressive.  From my experience, in many cases, it takes Orlando to deal with an issue, forcing Tampa's leaders to attempt to keep up (regional competition).  Locally, we're pretty isolated so, to a degree, we keep our heads in the sand when it comes to embracing market changes and new trends.

I think there are some...or at least a select few. We need to find them and talk about what we all need to see. Jacksonville has already awaken. It's just that we need to get out of the same ol' dull routine and try something new. We just can't say that our administration don't know how to do that. I have looked at photos of other popular cities from different websites with all of the attractions and amusements and with all the glitz and glamour. But I don't want to compared them to us and accuse our administration for dropping the ball on another opportunity. I wouldn't feel right about it because it wouldn't be fair. I still have faith in Mayor Peyton and his administration 'cause I know they will straighten up and get it right in order to make downtown a happening.
Lakelander, I somehow disagree about the idea of Jacksonville being isolated. It is not just about our city needing to get our heads out of the sand (I don't know how in the world we get the idea about Jacksonville putting their heads in the sand when it comes to embracing market changes and new trends.    That's crazy!), it's also about us needing to get better ideas like having our current administration study other cities that have great attractions and bringing them home like what Jake Godbold had done years and years ago. Can't we just stop criticising Mayor Peyton and help him out with this, huh?