Author Topic: Urban Parks: The Jacksonville Landing Courtyard  (Read 7357 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Urban Parks: The Jacksonville Landing Courtyard
« on: December 03, 2008, 05:00:00 AM »
Urban Parks: The Jacksonville Landing Courtyard



Although Hemming Plaza is Downtown Jacksonville's historic public square, the Jacksonville Landing's courtyard has become downtown's most popular public space.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/952

jeh1980

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Re: Urban Parks: The Jacksonville Landing Courtyard
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2008, 05:31:23 AM »
Does this article had to end on a bum note? It was a nice article up until then. That's not very good ::). In lieu of that, however, the Landing can find a way to make it's surroundings more immune to an urban connectivity environment. And it will one day connect to more retail options at Independent Square (MODIS Tower) with the reconstruction and the revamping of Laura Street coming soon. All it needs is time to get things right. Great photos of the Landing. Keep up the good work and Keep the Faith!  8)
« Last Edit: December 03, 2008, 05:33:11 AM by jeh1980 »

jbm32206

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Re: Urban Parks: The Jacksonville Landing Courtyard
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2008, 07:22:27 AM »
Good article, and yes...it's virtually cut off from downtown...it's an isolated section with just about nothing else of interest nearby.

copperfiend

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Re: Urban Parks: The Jacksonville Landing Courtyard
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2008, 08:56:11 AM »
Not my favorite place in the world to hang out but it's definitely a nice gathering spot for many people. If it opened to Laura Street, that would be terrific.

jaxlore

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Re: Urban Parks: The Jacksonville Landing Courtyard
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2008, 09:04:48 AM »
I ride by there everyday and still wish i had a reason to stop. Interesting food, interesting music maybe, nope, with the exception of the starbucks rarely do i have a reason to go down there and the half empty storefronts with exception of the toy store really does nothing to get me excited.

BridgeTroll

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Re: Urban Parks: The Jacksonville Landing Courtyard
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2008, 09:32:15 AM »
During the week with the exception of lunchtime not much goes on there.  Friday and Saturday nights often have a few bands playing, all the ground level courtyard restaraunts have bar kiosks around... fun place to people watch for a couple hours...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

GatorShane

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Re: Urban Parks: The Jacksonville Landing Courtyard
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2008, 11:11:51 AM »
Not my favorite place in the world to hang out but it's definitely a nice gathering spot for many people. If it opened to Laura Street, that would be terrific.
Great point about Laura Street. If and when it is opened up to the street, it could create a great gathering spot all the way up to Hemming Plaza.

Keith-N-Jax

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Re: Urban Parks: The Jacksonville Landing Courtyard
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2008, 02:55:38 PM »
Wouldnt imagine to much being done to the Landing. Once again dealings with the disfunctional city proves to be another stumbling block. I ask this question, would you do an extensive renovation on a property when you dont own the land underneath it?

thelakelander

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Re: Urban Parks: The Jacksonville Landing Courtyard
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2008, 05:29:15 PM »
One word......no.
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Ocklawaha

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Re: Urban Parks: The Jacksonville Landing Courtyard
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2008, 07:36:25 PM »
FUBAR - SNAFU - BOHICA

I'm not even sure the landing is worth saving at this point. The place is a shambles, the stores are empty and whats there is dirty. The elevators reek of urine mixed with Boones Farm or MD20/20. It's a tired and long outdated building complex which is much too small for a City like Jacsonville. Doesn't face or embrace the city and the riverwalk at the landing is so tiny crowds are 4 people or more trying to pass. Nothing wrong with the place that a bulldozier couldn't fix.

Why not do something serious? Why not a huge frickin' Metro-Mall complex with a Convention Center and Hyatt at one end and the TU center at the other? Reface the whole thing and blend it all together with open paseo's to Laura Street as well as everything from Newnan to Riverside-Broad.

Find a planner with the ability to tie it all together and build the thing with garages and streetcar service on Water Street to 5 Points. We'd finally trump Mickey Mouse and Church Street Station with something much bigger and much more flexible.

We'd finally... yeah... "we"... Ha, we can't even run an hourly bus service without screwing it up. Time for Rebel Yell and a call to the andes, a place with real cities. Viva Colombia! HIC! Say, "Do you know the way to San Jose?"


OCKLAWAHA

thelakelander

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Re: Urban Parks: The Jacksonville Landing Courtyard
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2008, 08:01:08 PM »
A couple of us met with the architect that was working on the Landing's expansion plans when Peyton's Big Idea plan hit the scene, nearly three years ago.  Many of the Landing's issues, like other downtown properties, are cosmetic.  As long as the actual structure is solid, there's no reason to start over from scratch unless you have a few extra million to blow.

While the exterior stucco plan was not attractive architecturally, imo, Sleiman's original plan would have been the type of place you described.  The old plan was to expand the complex from 140,000 square feet to over 1.2 million square feet with additional retail space, condominiums, a hotel and an office tower.  They also tossed around the idea of working with Hyatt to put up a convention center.

Landing land a point of contention
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/121505/bus_20567982.shtml

Sleiman to build convention center?
http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/081706/met_4470314.shtml

Here was the old redevelopment plan from a 2006 post I made on the old metjax site:

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The Landing Redevelopment Plan



The Landing's reconfiguration and expansion would occur over 3 phases.

Phase 1 (originally planned to be completed Jan. 2005)

- Open 60ft wide corridor to connect expanded waterfront courtyard with Laura Street.
- Rebuild exterior facade with a Mediterranean-styled theme.
- Build 120 slip marina
- construct 960 space "raised" parking garage stretching on Hogan Street. Garage would include street retail and waterfront dining space and a raised open area to preserve view of the river from Water Street.
- 6 to 8 story condo/office/retail building wrapped in glass skin to allow river views.
- A boutique hotel on top of garage.
- Add at least 3 national destination chain restaurants not located in Jacksonville.

According to T-U archives, possible tenants include Cheesecake Factory, Brio Italian Grille, Barnes & Noble, Marriott, Jos.A.Bank Clothiers and S&K Menswear

Phase II (orginally scheduled for completion Jan. 2007)

- Second 960 space garage
- Second 6-8 story mixed-use building (depending on market)

Phase III (originally planned to be completed by 2010)

- 1,000 space parking garage on parking lot, east of bridge
- a 25 to 26 story, 500,000sf office tower, intended to attract a Fortune 500 company to downtown.

Naturally, phase 1 (the revitalization of The Landing as a shopping and entertainment complex) is the most important one on the list. Imho, this phase fits in with the "Big Idea" plan, instead of competing with it. It is my hope that this plan is allowed to continue, because I don't think most residents in town would be willing to see The Landing in its current state for another 50 years, if its owner is willing to invest millions to greatly enhance it now.

Here's a three year old editorial piece about the Landing by Karen Brune Mathis.

Quote
It's time to fix the Landing situation

By KAREN BRUNE MATHIS, The Times-Union

Redevelopment of The Jacksonville Landing should be a New Year's resolution for all involved, but that's the problem. More people are involving themselves just about every day.

Not being an expert on the Landing's situation, I won't advise a specific solution. Instead, I will plead that somebody in charge -- namely Mayor John Peyton and City Council -- pick a direction and take it. Resolve the Landing situation by spring, start the redevelopment by summer and celebrate concrete progress by yearend.

The Landing has languished on prime downtown Northbank riverfront property for 20 years. It never realized its potential as a retail marketplace for many reasons, among them inadequate parking.

There's not enough time, space or patience to rehash everything, but as of today, at least five factions are involved, or trying to become involved, in dictating the Landing's redevelopment.

First, there's the faction, including some council members, that doesn't want the city to sell the land under and around the Landing to developer Toney Sleiman, who bought the building three years ago from the Rouse Co. Sleiman inherited Rouse's 70-year lease on the public land. The lease allows the city to keep the property for future use and ensure public access to the riverfront.

Second, there's the faction that wants to sell the land to Sleiman, a Jacksonville native and retail strip center developer who bought the Landing for $5 million. Sleiman and the city discussed a land sale because, since the Landing opened in 1987, the city was supposed to provide adequate parking but hasn't. As a result, the Landing has not been paying rent to the city.

Sleiman and the city proposed to swap the land for the parking requirement. If that happened, Sleiman would redevelop and expand the Landing, cut a wide entrance at Laura Street to open up a riverfront view and access and put up a parking garage on a portion of Hogan Street that would be closed. Once he owned the land, he proposed a $250 million investment for three parking garages, condos, offices and more retail stores. In November, the city issued a Request for Proposals to anyone interested in buying the land. Sleiman submitted what was expected to be the only bid. Surprisingly, it wasn't.

That brings up a third faction, area architects who oppose the Hogan Street garage. A member of the outspoken Downtown Design Review Committee jumped into the fray. A group led by preservationist Trip Stanly submitted a bid, which complicated matters.

Then there's a fourth, probably related, faction, and that's the group that says the entire matter needs to be reopened and rebid. I'm guessing this faction agrees with selling the land, just not necessarily to Sleiman.

And then there's a fifth faction that might or might not want to sell the land, but in any event, doesn't want it sold to Sleiman, considered a shrewd businessman who some think would develop just another big strip center, although -- unless otherwise negotiated -- any Landing expansion would be subject to downtown design rules. Because Sleiman owns the Landing, whoever ends up owning the land would need to provide that parking. My guess is Sleiman just might run the Landing "as is" if he didn't own the land.

Peyton needs to decide, soon, what direction to take, whether that means keeping the land, rebidding the land or forging ahead with the current bids. That's because it's time for the Landing to be what it was supposed to be 20 years ago -- the focal point of a reborn downtown.

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/010806/bum_20757704.shtml

I remember at the time, most on these forums felt that we needed to open the door when opportunity was knocking.  Instead of opening the door we sealed it shut and moved the couch behind it, sending the whole thing down the drain over politics.  The place should have been renovated before the 2005 Super Bowl when the economy was booming.  Hopefully, if we're lucky, opportunity will come around and knock once again.
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Keith-N-Jax

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Re: Urban Parks: The Jacksonville Landing Courtyard
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2008, 08:04:41 PM »
The Landing is worth saving and yes it is to small. This may sound crazy, but if the city had some money and sense of course. I would build a new TU-Center, the one we have is ugly and sits on the river front and adds nothing to the area except when something is going on there. Otherwise it sits there in wasted space. I would then go with Sliemans original plans but expand the Landings court yard and space along the river front. The hotel Tony was going to be built could be built along the TU property along with some other, shops, clubs and dinning. The new TU center could be placed on some of the left over Court House property or in the Sport District area. Just an idea.

MattnJax

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Re: Urban Parks: The Jacksonville Landing Courtyard
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2008, 12:13:09 AM »
It's nice that they added the large TV screen in the courtyard. Also, I agree with other posters that the landing would be more inviting if it opened up to downtown via Laura St. It's more inviting along the boardwalk and via boat.

sheclown

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Re: Urban Parks: The Jacksonville Landing Courtyard
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2008, 06:29:10 PM »
I agree.  Opening up to the rest of downtown would have been so much better.