Author Topic: Could Dames Point Bridge Collapse?  (Read 982 times)

jaxlongtimer

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Could Dames Point Bridge Collapse?
« on: March 22, 2025, 01:16:01 AM »
This is an interesting report. 

When the Dames Point Bridge was proposed, two of the biggest objections to it posed by the maritime industry where insufficient height and the location of the piers with respect to a turn in the shipping channel.  Both objections appear to have been valid over the years. 

FYI, the bridge was a JTA project at the time and JTA, just like with the U2C, wanted it built no matter what so they cut costs by ignoring objections such as the above.

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NTSB: Jacksonville's Dames Point Bridge has 'unknown' risk of collapse if hit by a vessel

The Dames Point Bridge (officially the 'Napoleon Bonaparte Broward Bridge'), Jacksonville's tallest bridge, has been identified by the National Transportation Safety Board as one of 68 bridges that have an "unknown level of risk of collapse" if hit by a vessel.

The NTSB released a report titled "Safeguarding Bridges from Vessel Strikes: Need for Vulnerability Assessment and Risk Reduction Strategies" on Tuesday.

The report says the board identified the need to safeguard bridges from vessel strikes as part of an ongoing investigation launched after the collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore after it was hit by a container ship. In their investigation, NTSB determined that the Francis Scott Key was above the level of risk of collapse were it hit by a vessel, a standard established by the American Association for State Highway and Transportation Officials (AASHTO)....

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2025/03/21/ntsb-dames-point-bridge-should-be-assessed-for-collapse-risk/82589354007/?tbref=hp
« Last Edit: March 22, 2025, 06:02:47 PM by jaxlongtimer »

vicupstate

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Re: Could Dames Point Bridge Collapse?
« Reply #1 on: March 22, 2025, 10:29:33 AM »
When this bridge was first proposed did they consider a tunnel at all? Given the 10-20 year life span of 'bridge height before obsolete status' it seems like that might have been the route to go. 
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Charles Hunter

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Re: Could Dames Point Bridge Collapse?
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2025, 01:39:05 PM »
When this bridge was first proposed did they consider a tunnel at all? Given the 10-20 year life span of 'bridge height before obsolete status' it seems like that might have been the route to go. 

I seriously doubt a tunnel was considered. As JaxLongTimer said, it was a JTA project, and they had experience with big bridges - Mathews, Fuller Warren, and Hart. And, to continue JLT's comments, JTA was interested in doing it in the least expensive way possible. At the time, JTA's projects were funded by toll revenues, and to get the way to get the revenue-to-cost ratio down is to reduce the cost of construction.

Charles Hunter

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Re: Could Dames Point Bridge Collapse?
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2025, 02:05:03 PM »
This is an interesting report. 

When the Dames Point Bridge was proposed, two of the biggest objections to it posed by the maritime industry where insufficient height and the location of the piers with respect to a turn in the shipping channel.  Both objections appear to have been valid over the years. 

FYI, the bridge was a JTA project at the time and JTA, just like with the U2C, wanted it built no matter what so they cut costs by ignoring objections such as the above.

Quote
NTSB: Jacksonville's Dames Point Bridge has 'unknown' risk of collapse if hit by a vessel

The Dames Point Bridge (officially the 'Napoleon Bonaparte Broward Bridge'), Jacksonville's tallest bridge, has been identified by the National Transportation Safety Board as one of 68 bridges that have an "unknown level of risk of collapse" if hit by a vessel.

The NTSB released a report titled "Safeguarding Bridges from Vessel Strikes: Need for Vulnerability Assessment and Risk Reduction Strategies" on Tuesday.

The report says the board identified the need to safeguard bridges from vessel strikes as part of an ongoing investigation launched after the collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore after it was hit by a container ship. In their investigation, NTSB determined that the Francis Scott Key was above the level of risk of collapse were it hit by a vessel, a standard established by the American Association for State Highway and Transportation Officials (AASHTO)....

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2025/03/21/ntsb-dames-point-bridge-should-be-assessed-for-collapse-risk/82589354007/?tbref=hp


JTA did make some design concessions to get their Coast Guard permit: [1] The length of the span between the piers was increased, so the southern pier would be on the shore of Quarantine Island, instead of next to the shipping channel. [2] The vertical clearance at mid-span was increased to 175 feet. I do not remember what JTA was proposing, but they did fight raising it.

The Times-Union quote doesn't go far enough into the NTSB Report:
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https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/nr20250320.aspx

Today’s report does not suggest that the 68 bridges are certain to collapse. The NTSB is recommending that these 30 bridge owners evaluate whether the bridges are above the AASHTO acceptable level of risk. The NTSB recommended that bridge owners develop and implement a comprehensive risk reduction plan, if the calculations indicate a bridge has a risk level above the AASHTO threshold.

In 1991, AASHTO developed and published the vulnerability assessment calculation for new bridges on the National Highway System, in response to the NTSB’s investigation of the Sunshine Skyway Bridge collapse in Florida. At the time, AASHTO also recommended that all bridge owners conduct the vulnerability assessment on existing bridges to evaluate their risk of catastrophic collapse in the event of a vessel collision. AASHTO reiterated that recommendation to States again in 2009.

Despite the scary local headlines, the NTSB, nor the FHWA, nor anyone else, has said the "Dames Point Bridge faces imminent collapse."  The NTSB is telling bridge owners, in this case FDOT, to perform safety assessments required for bridges built more recently than the Dames Point. This is a good idea, bridges like this one should be periodically assessed, using the latest standards.


Trivia - The Dames Point Bridge was designed as a toll bridge. The toll plaza was going to be between the bridge and Heckscher Drive. It took a change order to remove the toll plaza from the construction contract.  The wider right-of-way where the toll plaza was supposed to be came in handy when FDOT wanted to modify the Heckscher Drive interchange to improve truck access to the the port.