Author Topic: How Downtown's Train Station Was Saved  (Read 1477 times)

thelakelander

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How Downtown's Train Station Was Saved
« on: February 05, 2025, 09:24:31 AM »
Quote


It was the party of the century. It saved a building. It helped save a neighborhood. It was led by a conductor that never even worked in the rail industry. This is the story of the Station Celebration, a forgotten dispatch that rallied thousands of Jaxsons together to help save Jacksonville’s Union Terminal.


Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/how-downtowns-train-station-was-saved/
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Houseboat Mike

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Re: How Downtown's Train Station Was Saved
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2025, 01:51:33 PM »
Fantastic read, thanks much!

urban_

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Re: How Downtown's Train Station Was Saved
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2025, 03:47:26 PM »
An incredible article!!

Steve

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Re: How Downtown's Train Station Was Saved
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2025, 04:13:24 PM »
One clarification point:

Quote
For two years the group negotiated to enter into a public-private partnership with the City of Jacksonville to redevelop the main terminal building and construct a modern, 265,000 square foot convention center along the former rail spurs behind the terminal.

The current convention center is nowhere near 265k SqFt - if it was, we'd be in a lot better shape.

How did we end up value engineering it?

BridgeTroll

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Re: How Downtown's Train Station Was Saved
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2025, 05:25:27 PM »
Great article!!  8)
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

jaxlongtimer

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Re: How Downtown's Train Station Was Saved
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2025, 09:52:30 PM »
As a native of Jacksonville that actually greeted family and left on trains from Union Terminal in my formative years, this was a great effort to save the building.  I still recall the musty smells of the tunnels and the feeling, and sound, of air releases from the trains.

I also recall picking up Sears Catalogue shipments with my parents at the REA Freight Terminal and mail from the West Bay Post Office Annex.  Sad that all those buildings and/or remnants did not survive in some form.

A few minor tweaks/comments: 

- It's Charlie Towers (add the "s"), a founder of the Rogers Towers law firm and whose family owned an area chain of hardware stores, Towers Hardware.

- As I recall, there was a competing bid to locate the convention center on the old Sears site where the Omni/Marriott/Enterprise Center buildings now sit.  It was fun watching the City's normally aligned powers-that-be that controlled each site split into two competing groups, each trying to politically position themselves to win out.

-I attended the Ramses II exhibit in 1986 and have the exhibit catalogue sitting on my bookshelf to this day  8).  This was indeed a big coupe for Jacksonville, following the King Tut exhibition (which I also saw in Washington, DC, and have the catalogue for) 10 years earlier.

-I also was present as a citizen observer for the ribbon cutting of the Osborn Center in 1986.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2025, 11:39:42 PM by jaxlongtimer »

Charles Hunter

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Re: How Downtown's Train Station Was Saved
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2025, 11:20:24 PM »
As a native of Jacksonville that actually greeted family and left on trains from Union Terminal in my formative years, this was a great effort to save the building.  I still recall the musty smells of the tunnels and the feeling, and sound, of air releases from the trains.
...
- As I recall, there was a competing bid to locate the convention center on the old Sears site where the Omni/Marriot/Enterprise Center buildings now sits.  It was fun watching the City's normally aligned powers-that-be that controlled each site split into two competing groups, each trying to politically position themselves to win out.
I remember this as well

Quote
-I attended the Ramses II exhibit in 1886 and have the exhibit catalogue sitting on my bookshelf to this day  8).  This was indeed a big coupe for Jacksonville, following the King Tut exhibition (which I also saw in Washington, DC, and have the catalogue for) 10 years earlier.

...

Damn, you ARE a Jacksonville Long Timer!!  :D

jaxlongtimer

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Re: How Downtown's Train Station Was Saved
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2025, 11:36:27 PM »
^ LOL, good catch.  A long timer, but not that long!

Fixed... covering my tracks... no pun intended  ;D.

Charles Hunter

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Re: How Downtown's Train Station Was Saved
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2025, 11:47:41 AM »
I don't know how seriously the Jacksonville passenger terminal site was considered for JTA's bus maintenance facility and headquarters before the historic designation and convention center concepts came along. The cost of removing all those tracks would have been a budget-buster. I know for a fact that JTA looked at several multi-block sites in Lavilla, all the way from Bay Street to State Street. This went as far as researching property records (the old plat books and print-outs of assessments - nothing "on line" in the late 1970s), until the former Railway Express site became available. The REX site had the advantage of a single owner, significantly reducing acquisition time. Of course, it had rails and a rail turn-table to remove.

jaxlongtimer

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Re: How Downtown's Train Station Was Saved
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2025, 06:34:37 PM »
I don't know how seriously the Jacksonville passenger terminal site was considered for JTA's bus maintenance facility and headquarters before the historic designation and convention center concepts came along. The cost of removing all those tracks would have been a budget-buster. I know for a fact that JTA looked at several multi-block sites in Lavilla, all the way from Bay Street to State Street. This went as far as researching property records (the old plat books and print-outs of assessments - nothing "on line" in the late 1970s), until the former Railway Express site became available. The REX site had the advantage of a single owner, significantly reducing acquisition time. Of course, it had rails and a rail turn-table to remove.

The engine repair shop and turntable should have been saved.  It would be an amazing historical site and tourist attraction today as almost none remain elsewhere.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2025, 11:33:04 PM by jaxlongtimer »

Charles Hunter

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Re: How Downtown's Train Station Was Saved
« Reply #10 on: February 07, 2025, 10:46:47 PM »


The engine repair shop and turntable should have been saved.  It would be amazing historical site and tourist attraction today as almost none remain elsewhere.

Then it would have been useless for JTA, as the turntable took up a significant portion of the site, and it had the tracks on it.

At the time, LaVilla was still LaVilla, so assembling enough property would have involved dozens of residential and commercial parcels. Godzilla had not yet visited the area.

jaxlongtimer

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Re: How Downtown's Train Station Was Saved
« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2025, 11:43:13 PM »
The engine repair shop and turntable should have been saved.  It would be an amazing historical site and tourist attraction today as almost none remain elsewhere.

Then it would have been useless for JTA, as the turntable took up a significant portion of the site, and it had the tracks on it.

At the time, LaVilla was still LaVilla, so assembling enough property would have involved dozens of residential and commercial parcels. Godzilla had not yet visited the area.



I get your point but looking at this photo it would appear that the roundtable/engine shed (the semi-circular building in the upper right) would have been less than about 25% of the area.  And, there is/was plenty of land across Acorn for additional acquisitions.  JTA may have even been able to close some of Acorn if they had acquired enough land on both sides.  The FM&F (Florida Machine & Foundry) property became Main Recycling, now Nucor, and is a large property stretching from Acorn to Beaver.

As this article suggests with the saving efforts of the Terminal, maybe a similar effort could have found a viable solution that accommodated both JTA and saved some historic rail structures.

thelakelander

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Re: How Downtown's Train Station Was Saved
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2025, 10:39:57 AM »
They didn't care about history back then. They don't really care about it now. So not surprising that both the REA and A&ECT freight depots were lost.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Charles Hunter

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Re: How Downtown's Train Station Was Saved
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2025, 01:16:06 PM »
As Lake said, JTA (or the City) didn't care much about history, especially industrial history. Comparing the historic photo with today's Google aerial, it looks like the roundhouse/turntable was about where one end of the bus maintenance building is. As you say, if history was a priority, additional property would have been needed to replace the area lost to the roundhouse.

Sorry, I've never figured out how to embed a photo here. Look at how much bigger I-95 is!!

https://maps.app.goo.gl/iGSLjUeewvFZTw8s6