Author Topic: Prime Osborn area chosen for UF campus  (Read 41239 times)

CityLife

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Re: Prime Osborn area chosen for UF campus
« Reply #60 on: December 29, 2024, 05:07:16 PM »
West Palm Beach didn't really lose UF to Jax as much as UF blew a golden opportunity there. There were 2 billionaire developers (Stephen Ross and Jeff Greene) fighting over land and naming rights to the new school. Greene also wanted a clawback on land he was donating if UF didn't maintain a certain number of students (I believe 1k). UF started looking at Jax and Stephen Ross got mad and started reaching out to elite out of state private schools. NYU was considered, as they are currently building a 200k square foot hospital in Downtown WPB and I heard some Ivy's were also looked at, but Vandy was the best fit.

Ross recently retired from and sold his equity in Related Companies, but spun out all of his WPB projects into his new company Related Ross. He also sold 13% of his share in the Dolphins. He's one of the best developers in the world, is cash flush, and is all in on WPB with one new office building recently completed, one nearly done, 3 more coming soon, and others in the works; plus some new high rise resi projects. https://www.relatedross.com/office  He also owns CityPlace is right in the middle of most of his projects and it is undergoing a huge transformation with a lot of cool stuff (including an Eataly). UF made a huge mistake not piggybacking on all of his success,  connections, and continued growth. Getting an elite university to offer grad programs with synergies with the businesses he is recruiting has always been a real estate play for Ross. That's why he has committed so much money and fundraised amongst his network. UF could have had it all, but ultimately, Vandy should make out like a king.

Some UF alumni in the real estate development world in South Florida I know are baffled at UF's decision to not play ball in West Palm Beach. There is some speculation that it was cost of living and cost of land related. Essentially, there is no way for anyone in UF's network to make money from the campus coming since Ross and other developers already own all nearby land...

As I've said in the other thread about this topic before, I'm glad this happened as an FSU grad and Jax native. A UF campus in WPB would have opened up all kinds of doors to mega donors and heavy hitting businesses and significantly increased it's national prestige. And ultimately, the Jax campus can save downtown. IMO, it's downtown Jacksonville and the urban core's last hope for long term financial sustainability.

I mean this sounds like UF didn't have nearly as much to gain from WPB as Ross did, and it's not exactly their job to enrich a billionaire. And clearly they didn't find whatever other benefits worth the squeeze.

My hot take is that this campus is of course a promising development, but there's nothing preventing Jax in classic Jax fashion from failing to benefit from it. This could easily end as half of LaVilla becoming an academic fortress while the rest of the urban core barely changes. And at the same time, there's no guarantee that Downtown could not have continued to develop without the campus (which remember, didn't seem to be happening for some time). Winning the campus is not the end-all be-all, you still have to sell people on coming here. There's still work to do to make this and all of Downtown and the urban core a success.

The mere fact that Ross/WPB was able to bring in a more prestigious school like Vanderbilt shows that they didn't need UF as badly as UF needed them. Your own skepticism about the likelihood of the UF Jax campus succeeding basically reinforces my above post as well. Ross doesn't fail. He's too connected and too big to fail. He doesn't need UF to make him rich. He's worth $17 billion. He's already been incredibly successful in the past 5 years recruiting bigtime tenants to his WPB office project's. His most recent one is fully leased at rates between $100-140 a square foot, all to the exact type of tenants that both the UF and Vandy campus want to partner with. Related Ross recently announced they are bringing in a yet to be named Silicon Valley company with 25k new employees. Meanwhile DT Jax is leaking tenants at rates of $20-25 a square foot.

I can't explain in less than 50,000 words how many more things are happening in DT WPB than Jax and how much more wealth and access to donations and capital there are there and in Palm Beach. UF was only getting $50 million from Ross to come to WPB initially, but someone that knows Ross told me they would have ultimately gotten donations similar to or even more than what Michigan has gotten from him ($500 million). With all of the other billionaires, investment banks, private equity groups around, the possibilities for UF were limitless. Time will tell, but I feel very confident that UF made a massive mistake. But fortunately for Jax, the transition from Fuchs to Sasse killed any hope of the WPB campus happening.   

UF and Jax can still make a successful campus, but as you said that will require some success from COJ, Chamber, etc. As I said in another post in the thread, it's time for Jax to get to work and go bonkers with recruiting complementary businesses to partner with UF and to create a desirable place for UF students/professors. There are no billionaires to guarantee success in LaVilla. However, there is a blank slate, with good bones, cheap land, cheap office space, and some cool nearby neighborhoods. If DT Jax can't succeed with this golden opportunity, I truly don't see how it ever can in the future.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2024, 05:43:23 PM by CityLife »

thelakelander

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Re: Prime Osborn area chosen for UF campus
« Reply #61 on: December 29, 2024, 08:18:59 PM »
^As a Dolphins fan, I'd wish Ross would succeed there. Unfortunately, all the money in the world hasn't resulted in much on the field.
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CityLife

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Re: Prime Osborn area chosen for UF campus
« Reply #62 on: December 29, 2024, 10:28:42 PM »
^As a Dolphins fan, I'd wish Ross would succeed there. Unfortunately, all the money in the world hasn't resulted in much on the field.

If owning a football team was the same as developing real estate, I'm sure he would have been an incredibly successful owner. Especially if he had similar financial advantages over his competition and there wasn't a salary cap. But alas, he's only the 10th wealthiest owner and can't spend freely over the others due to the salary cap.


jaxlongtimer

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Re: Prime Osborn area chosen for UF campus
« Reply #63 on: December 30, 2024, 12:40:08 AM »
Quote
There are no billionaires to guarantee success in LaVilla.

Actually, we could have one in Khan but I doubt he would step up in the same way as you describe.  We do have some billionaire families in Jax but I don't think they are in the league with Ross and Khan.  A billion isn't what it used to be as they say...  ;D.  (And, even if they were, I don't see them playing this role unless they are in love with UF.) 

We do have one precedent for a very wealthy family bringing a major project to Jacksonville (exclusive of the Weavers bringing us the Jags) and that is the Davis Family being responsible for Mayo Clinic being here.  So, anything is possible, I guess.

thelakelander

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Re: Prime Osborn area chosen for UF campus
« Reply #64 on: December 30, 2024, 09:26:49 AM »
^Luckily LaVilla doesn't need a billionare to guarantee success. Money or access to capital has never been LaVilla's struggle. If anything, "outside" money used wrong led to its 1990s urban renewal.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Tacachale

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Re: Prime Osborn area chosen for UF campus
« Reply #65 on: December 30, 2024, 09:48:48 AM »
^+1. Most great places aren’t built by billionaires, which comes with its own pricetag. Better to work with what you’ve got.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Captain Zissou

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Re: Prime Osborn area chosen for UF campus
« Reply #66 on: December 30, 2024, 09:49:51 AM »
Quote
There are no billionaires to guarantee success in LaVilla.
Actually, we could have one in Khan but I doubt he would step up in the same way as you describe.
He is investing hundreds of millions of dollars into the stadium district in downtown already. He's already putting his money where his mouth is to develop Jacksonville and bring in Jacksonville's first 5 star hotel.

Tacachale

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Re: Prime Osborn area chosen for UF campus
« Reply #67 on: December 30, 2024, 10:09:13 AM »
Quote
There are no billionaires to guarantee success in LaVilla.
Actually, we could have one in Khan but I doubt he would step up in the same way as you describe.
He is investing hundreds of millions of dollars into the stadium district in downtown already. He's already putting his money where his mouth is to develop Jacksonville and bring in Jacksonville's first 5 star hotel.

Quite so, and much more is coming.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Jax_Developer

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Re: Prime Osborn area chosen for UF campus
« Reply #68 on: December 30, 2024, 12:31:46 PM »
Related Ross recently announced they are bringing in a yet to be named Silicon Valley company with 25k new employees.

Very interesting. Hopefully more than a satellite office...

Skybox111

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Re: Prime Osborn area chosen for UF campus
« Reply #69 on: January 01, 2025, 10:15:04 PM »
Amtrak pulled out after 30 years of development millions wasted  if they did that to miami that has more density and a larger airport than ours than it’s probably best not to have amtrak here or anyone else. Jacksonville is small even if downtown got built out there still isn’t a huge demand for passenger rail and not many people will consider using it than taking a plane and getting there faster. Just like people living in downtown where retail and grocery are close by blocks and blocks no-one would care much to use transit and will just walk or bike. Maybe the elderly and handicapped but less of them compared to thousands each day that is needed to make a profit to keep transit operating. 

https://www.miamitodaynews.com/2024/12/30/amtrak-derails-decades-of-deals-to-serve-miami-international-airport/

thelakelander

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Re: Prime Osborn area chosen for UF campus
« Reply #70 on: January 01, 2025, 10:40:53 PM »
Amtrak also broke ground on a station in Mobile, AL for the return of intercity passenger rail service to that city. At this point, I don't think the circumstances of what's taken place at the MIC or Mobile has anything to do with Jax. Jax should keep moving its plans for the return of intercity passenger rail in downtown forward.
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Tacachale

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Re: Prime Osborn area chosen for UF campus
« Reply #71 on: January 02, 2025, 09:51:34 AM »
Amtrak pulled out after 30 years of development millions wasted  if they did that to miami that has more density and a larger airport than ours than it’s probably best not to have amtrak here or anyone else. Jacksonville is small even if downtown got built out there still isn’t a huge demand for passenger rail and not many people will consider using it than taking a plane and getting there faster. Just like people living in downtown where retail and grocery are close by blocks and blocks no-one would care much to use transit and will just walk or bike. Maybe the elderly and handicapped but less of them compared to thousands each day that is needed to make a profit to keep transit operating. 

https://www.miamitodaynews.com/2024/12/30/amtrak-derails-decades-of-deals-to-serve-miami-international-airport/

Miami's Amtrak situation is different than Jacksonville's. Amtrak still serves the Miami station, up in Hialeah about 7 miles northwest of Downtown. There's (currently) no good way for Amtrak to get to the city center; the plan was to bring them further south to the airport, where local transit already goes, but which was extremely expensive. Brightline also serves Downtown Miami on different tracks as does local transit. In Jacksonville, Amtrak's current route already takes it right past the Prime Osborn and there are other tracks there. Doing this also opens up the door for the FEC line (used by Brightline further south) for passenger use once again.

The situation is more similar to Mobile, where Amtrak extended service along the tracks it used to use 20 years ago, but in Jax, the Prime Osborn doesn't require the level of new track infrastructure that Mobile did.

64,000 people use Jacksonville's current Amtrak station per year despite its inconvenient location and lack of development opportunities. Moving to the Prime Osborn would take better advantage of that activity to spark new development and connect with other transit, and the ridership would likely increase due to the better location. It would also open up the door for other opportunities, such as Brightline, local rail and additional Amtrak routes.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

marcuscnelson

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Re: Prime Osborn area chosen for UF campus
« Reply #72 on: January 02, 2025, 08:53:32 PM »
Like others have said, Miami's challenges with Amtrak have to do with a number of issues that don't impact Jacksonville to the same extent. As hinted in the letter from Amtrak to FDOT, moving long distance service to the station at the airport would need a great deal of additional construction work while still requiring a large amount of servicing operations at the existing Hialeah facility. Especially with state support for expanded service so tenuous, it probably made more sense for Amtrak to stick to their wholly-controlled facility where the trains all have to be serviced anyway.

Also worth remembering that at the end of the day, mass transit is generally a public service not intended to generate a profit, same as our expansive highway network (which as we speak, FDOT is spending billions of dollars on with no expectation of making a profit). That doesn't mean it doesn't have to make any money (although again, most of our highways do not) but profitability is not the only useful measure of its success.
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Fallen Buckeye

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Re: Prime Osborn area chosen for UF campus
« Reply #73 on: April 09, 2025, 12:04:34 PM »
The latest on the Florida Semiconductor Institute:
https://news.ufl.edu/2025/03/fsi-jacksonville/

Quote
The Jacksonville space will be anchored by a $45 million Advanced Technology Center, which will co-locate UF research and development with industry-leading semiconductor companies, as well as serve as the potential headquarters for UF’s national security applied research enterprise. The state has also appropriate $35 million for research operations, bringing total funding for the project to $80 million.

Tacachale

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Re: Prime Osborn area chosen for UF campus
« Reply #74 on: April 12, 2025, 03:29:25 PM »
The latest on the Florida Semiconductor Institute:
https://news.ufl.edu/2025/03/fsi-jacksonville/

Quote
The Jacksonville space will be anchored by a $45 million Advanced Technology Center, which will co-locate UF research and development with industry-leading semiconductor companies, as well as serve as the potential headquarters for UF’s national security applied research enterprise. The state has also appropriate $35 million for research operations, bringing total funding for the project to $80 million.

Keep an eye on this. It's a little under the radar, but this bit alone is a huge deal that'll have a big impact, especially for a comparatively small price tag.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?