Author Topic: DVI 2024 State of Downtown Report  (Read 4976 times)

urban_

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DVI 2024 State of Downtown Report
« on: December 09, 2024, 09:58:15 AM »
https://dtjax.com/2024-state-of-downtown-report/

Wasn't sure if anyone had posted a topic about this yet.

heights unknown

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Re: DVI 2024 State of Downtown Report
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2024, 10:05:27 PM »
We fall very short in comparison to other Florida cities; this news isn't new news.
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thelakelander

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Re: DVI 2024 State of Downtown Report
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2024, 09:18:19 AM »
Quote
26% of downtown Jacksonville office space was vacant in 2023, far more than other big Florida cities

https://www.news4jax.com/news/local/2024/12/09/26-of-downtown-jacksonville-office-space-was-vacant-in-2023-far-more-than-other-big-florida-cities/
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CityLife

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Re: DVI 2024 State of Downtown Report
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2024, 10:01:09 AM »
There is some good discussion of Downtown Jacksonville's office woes in this thread:

https://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,38017.0.html

Also, while Jacksonville's leaders continue to make excuses for it's soft downtown office market 26% vacancy with EXTREMELY low leasing rates, other cities in Florida continue to build office. Who knows if this bubble will burst, but they are doing the exact opposite of Jax. Yes, Jax is a totally different market than South Florida, but if Jax was as hot as DVI proclaims, there would at least be some momentum to backfill it's existing office market.

Here is Ken Griffin (Citadel's) new 54-story, 1,026 foot tall office in Miami that will start construction in 2025 with 1.7 million square feet.



830 Brickell-650k square feet of office in a 57 story, 725 tall building. Finished in 2023



Then in Downtown West Palm Beach, Stephen Ross is going nuts. He sold his shares of Related and spun off Related Ross with his Florida projects. He's bringing in major financial players and I think has some stuff in the works with Silicon Valley too.

One Flagler is just finishing up and is already full leased up....at $100-$140 a square foot. 25 stories and 270k square feet.



360 Rosemary was recently completed and is fully leased up. 20 stories and 300k square feet



10 City Place-Under Construction. 480k square feet of office.



15 City Place-500k square feet of office



There are a few other non Ross office projects in downtown WPB and some smaller office projects in Downtown Miami too. So as I continue saying in other threads, office as a concept is not dead. It just appears to be in Downtown Jax...

CityLife

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Re: DVI 2024 State of Downtown Report
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2024, 10:15:54 AM »
New office isn't just exclusive to South Florida. Even St. Pete is joining the party.

Ground was recently broken on The Central, a mixed-use building with 125k square feet of office in St. Pete



400 Central Avenue in St. Pete is mixed use with 40k square feet of office



Halcyon is preleasing 130k square feet in a 10 story building




Jax_Developer

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Re: DVI 2024 State of Downtown Report
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2024, 11:19:40 AM »
DVI inflating our pipeline figures is a great example of the echo chamber downtown. Dozens of projects that are either already complete (many should have been well before 2024) or that have zero timeline. Throw in all the publicly funded projects because why not. That all really demonstrates how great DT is doing.

These grossly expensive reports might fool corporate relo's, but there are so many white lies mushed in.

Report should read "Northbank on the verge of total economic collapse, can Gateway be the ones who save it?"

CityLife

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Re: DVI 2024 State of Downtown Report
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2024, 01:28:35 PM »
^Both Gateway and UF can end up being Downtown's saviors. Funny enough, I don't believe either could have happened without the lack of recent success from DVI and DIA. It would have been substantially tougher for Gateway to assemble that much land, affordably in a competitive environment. Similarly, the amount of cheap land/buildings and relatively affordable cost of housing/living helped steer UF to Jax.

JaxUSA should be feasting right now with a downtown office vacancy rate of 26% and leasing rates in the high teens and low 20's per square foot.


CityLife

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Re: DVI 2024 State of Downtown Report
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2024, 01:58:33 PM »
Skimming the report and it lists Fidelity Investments as a "major downtown employer". There is a decent sized Fidelity call center presence on the Southside, but is there also a presence Downtown? Or does the DVI think Fidelity Investments is part of FIS?

Jax_Developer

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Re: DVI 2024 State of Downtown Report
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2024, 02:00:12 PM »
Gateway's assemblage started a long time ago... If anything, the lack of progress on the Northbank helped them assemble even more than they could have if downtown had substantial demand. There's no way they could have assembled what they did, without another player getting involved & ruining the fun. Not to mention, DLP is bankrolling the operation. 

JWB & DLP had/has the vision & took the risk while the Northbank has continued to decline... Two local companies with substantial assets.  I personally think the city deserves very little credit for what these companies were able to pull off. Just my 2 cents.

CityLife

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Re: DVI 2024 State of Downtown Report
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2024, 02:04:53 PM »
Gateway's assemblage started a long time ago... If anything, the lack of progress on the Northbank helped them assemble even more than they could have if downtown had substantial demand. There's no way they could have assembled what they did, without another player getting involved & ruining the fun. Not to mention, DLP is bankrolling the operation. 

JWB & DLP had/has the vision & took the risk while the Northbank has continued to decline... Two local companies with substantial assets.  I personally think the city deserves very little credit for what these companies were able to pull off. Just my 2 cents.

That's exactly what I said 2 posts above, btw. Not sure if you misread it.

Jax_Developer

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Re: DVI 2024 State of Downtown Report
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2024, 02:06:11 PM »
Ah, I misread! My apologies. 

Very much agree on the UF item... lol.

Alex Sifakis

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Re: DVI 2024 State of Downtown Report
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2024, 09:44:47 AM »
All... there would be no JWB or Gateway investment in downtown without the DIA. 

Without the DIA, there is not 91 new townhomes and 91 new homeowners in Lavilla at Johnson Commons.  Without the DIA, there is no DPRP incentive program for historic buildings, which JWB used to renovate 218 Church Street, the Federal Reserve Building, the Porter House Mansion, and the Greenleaf building (Greenleaf still in process).  Without the DIA and their leadership (Bryan Moll thought Lori was amazing when they met back in 2022) and incentive programs, we don't get Bryan to come to Jax and lead Gateway... and that project would not be anything close to what it is if JWB was running point on it and not Bryan! 

I also wish development was happening faster... but these things take time.  No person/organization is perfect. Not asking people on here to be blind sunshine pumpers, or not criticize when criticism is due.  But if you like what JWB and Gateway have been doing in downtown the last five years, you HAVE to give the DIA credit. From the horse's mouth, anything else is disingenuous.

One last thing - more people read these boards than you think, and they do have some level of impact on downtown sentiment. As much as you send criticism when it is due, please celebrate all the good news when it comes too.  I think you will be seeing a lot of good news the next few years when it comes to downtown.

Jax_Developer

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Re: DVI 2024 State of Downtown Report
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2024, 10:57:48 AM »
The DIA (mainly) & DDRB get flak for the wrong reasons bc they are really just review authorities acting within set parameters. The issue stems with the egregious lies being touted downtown - that remove a lot of credibility to the projects/people/businesses etc that are serious players. (Like placing every single project with any type of press in a "serious" report.)

The U2C has got to be one of the biggest taxpayer scams Jacksonville has ever seen. If not for JEA, it would be #1. Nobody downtown has even said something, other than Peluso, against it. Add on the fact that nobody in planning, the city, or JTA is willing to fully acknowledge, but understands, the fact that the U2C removes any possibility of any project in Jacksonville qualifying for TIFIA-TOD funding.

Moreover, the whole septic phase out program is several years behind.. it makes you wonder where all the money is going for such a vital project that will cost our city 8-figures whenever we can't bond the environmental fees. These reports (& previously Howland) highlight the sheer density of city funding going to such a small area... which frankly, if UF & Gateway weren't put together, what would the honest state of things be currently?

The city's collective decision to invest the amount it has into downtown should be faced with tough scrutiny because it makes blunders like the U2C that much more expensive to the taxpayer 20-years from now. I'm glad the private market is doing its part, but the powers in the city needs to take a stand on what real transit will look like in the most important area in our entire city. These reports only hurt these types of efforts, from my perspective.

Tacachale

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Re: DVI 2024 State of Downtown Report
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2024, 11:52:27 AM »
All... there would be no JWB or Gateway investment in downtown without the DIA. 

Without the DIA, there is not 91 new townhomes and 91 new homeowners in Lavilla at Johnson Commons.  Without the DIA, there is no DPRP incentive program for historic buildings, which JWB used to renovate 218 Church Street, the Federal Reserve Building, the Porter House Mansion, and the Greenleaf building (Greenleaf still in process).  Without the DIA and their leadership (Bryan Moll thought Lori was amazing when they met back in 2022) and incentive programs, we don't get Bryan to come to Jax and lead Gateway... and that project would not be anything close to what it is if JWB was running point on it and not Bryan! 

I also wish development was happening faster... but these things take time.  No person/organization is perfect. Not asking people on here to be blind sunshine pumpers, or not criticize when criticism is due.  But if you like what JWB and Gateway have been doing in downtown the last five years, you HAVE to give the DIA credit. From the horse's mouth, anything else is disingenuous.

One last thing - more people read these boards than you think, and they do have some level of impact on downtown sentiment. As much as you send criticism when it is due, please celebrate all the good news when it comes too.  I think you will be seeing a lot of good news the next few years when it comes to downtown.

Well said.
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Ken_FSU

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Re: DVI 2024 State of Downtown Report
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2024, 12:24:18 PM »
All... there would be no JWB or Gateway investment in downtown without the DIA. 

Without the DIA, there is not 91 new townhomes and 91 new homeowners in Lavilla at Johnson Commons.  Without the DIA, there is no DPRP incentive program for historic buildings, which JWB used to renovate 218 Church Street, the Federal Reserve Building, the Porter House Mansion, and the Greenleaf building (Greenleaf still in process).  Without the DIA and their leadership (Bryan Moll thought Lori was amazing when they met back in 2022) and incentive programs, we don't get Bryan to come to Jax and lead Gateway... and that project would not be anything close to what it is if JWB was running point on it and not Bryan! 

Not asking people on here to be blind sunshine pumpers, or not criticize when criticism is due.  But if you like what JWB and Gateway have been doing in downtown the last five years, you HAVE to give the DIA credit. From the horse's mouth, anything else is disingenuous.

I honestly think you'll find that most people here consider the Gateway/JWB stuff to be the most exciting, most catalytic plan that downtown has seen over the last 20+ years. It'll be the biggest win DT Jax has seen in many of our lifetimes if it crosses the finish line. And I've heard straight from Bryan's mouth that his involvement wouldn't have happened without the DIA and Lori. No DIA, no project. Absolutely not disputing that.

But I think a lot of us have also become cynical over the years and reluctant to credit organizations like the DIA with their flowers until after the certificate of occupancy is in hand and the project is complete. There have just been too many false starts and abandoned projects over the last five years. The District. The OG Shipyards. Spandrell. The Hardwick. American Lions. The residential tower at the old Greyhound site. Lot J. The Laura Street Trio. Ambassador. Independent Life. Everything about the project and the steps that have been taken suggest that it's got more credibility and possibility of happening than maybe all of those other projects combined, but to me personally, full credit will come when it's complete, because that's what DT Jax needs. I've been burned too many times. Our reputation as a "city of renders" is well documented.

Quote
One last thing - more people read these boards than you think, and they do have some level of impact on downtown sentiment. As much as you send criticism when it is due, please celebrate all the good news when it comes too.  I think you will be seeing a lot of good news the next few years when it comes to downtown.

Looking forward to it! And I will say, though this board can lean negative against some of the downtown organizations (myself one of the biggest offenders), you'll also see many people, myself included, thrilled to celebrate positive new DIA initiatives.

Just from the last couple of weeks:

https://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,38066.0.html
https://www.metrojacksonville.com/forum/index.php/topic,38095.0.html

Feels like this place has also been highly complimentary of the DIA beefing up the historic preservation fund, negotiating an equitable deal with the Jags for their Four Seasons/Shipyards project, launching Sip & Stroll, and (depending on which side of the debate you fell on) standing up against the public subsidies requested for the Lot J project.

Any criticism absolutely isn't personal.

For the DIA specifically, their stated job is to:

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Guided by a nine-member board, the DIA works to attract investment, facilitate job creation, support infrastructure improvements, and oversee public property disposition.

We've had five years under this current DIA group. Without diminishing some of the awesome stuff noted above, I think it's entirely fair to suggest that job creation has gone backwards, public property disposition has not been successful with all of the failed riverfront RFPs, infrastructure improvements like two-waying of streets, Musical Heritage Park, St. Johns Park have been very slow to progress, and outside investment has failed to turn as much completed work as you'd like to see over a five-year period of historic economic prosperity and immigration for Jax.

It's awesome what you guys have done with the support of the DIA, but for a city our size, feels like it shouldn't be you guys shouldering the full responsibility of proving their effectiveness. Why aren't there three or four other JWBs out there trying to get their hands on property?

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I also wish development was happening faster... but these things take time.

I get it, and it's also what worries me.

My optimism about Downtown Jacksonville five years from now is about as high as it's ever been. As noted, the Gateway/JWB project has the potential to be truly transformational. The new mayoral administration is crushing it, in my opinion, and negotiated a great deal with the Jags that's a win-win for the franchise and downtown quality of life. New parks are coming, new solutions to the vagrant crisis are coming, the Four Seasons is coming. Awesome riverfront development, some announced/some not yet public knowledge, is on the horizon. UF is setting up shop.

But what I'm worried about is how we shore up existing downtown business in the interim so all of these great new additions add net-new downtown vibrancy, instead of backfilling the monthly losses we've been seeing for a while now.

You mention how we needn't be all rainbows and sunshine, just better acknowledge the positive. I think that's quite fair. In the same vain though, I think that works both ways. The DIA & DVI can be the exact opposite, all rainbows and sunshine while ignoring or not directly addressing the dire issues that all of us see with our own eyes on the streets each day.

Lost/ignored in the DVI's State of Downtown Report is the attrition. Just off the top of my head, we've lost Peterbrooke, Vagabond, Back to the Grind, Bread & Board, Jumping Jax, Magnificat, and Burrito Gallery in the last 10 months. Olio, Zodiac, and Cowford lunch service weren't far behind that. Major businesses, some with thousands of employees, are considering leaving because of how things are now, rather than how they will potentially be in five years.

I get frustrated and lose trust when none of this is publicly acknowledged. The first part of stopping the bleeding in the short-term is admitting there's a problem and working toward some immediate solutions while we wait for the bigger, exciting plans to come online.

90% of my criticism of the DIA and DVI would go away if I didn't hear them on the radio or in interviews saying that the homeless problem is statistically overstated, Jacksonville's rising downtown office vacancy is normal and because of "work from home shifts," and that downtown has never had more momentum. It's DELIGHTFUL to be optimistic, I'm an optimistic guy, but I'd be much, much more supportive if I heard, "Downtown residents and workers - we hear you. We've got some really difficult challenges to overcome in the short-term while we fix these bigger things. Here's what we're going to do." That's it. Just an acknowledgment that there's a problem in the moment, and we're all in it together to try to fix it. And instead of feeling like I'm being told my eyeballs are lying to me and the empty storefronts/vagrant threatening to stab me are hallucinations, I feel like we're all on the same page. And if there's a roadblock toward change, we can all address it honestly as a populace. Does the DIA need more resources? Is there too much red tape? Let's find a way to collectively fix it.

I think I've mentioned it in the past, but a lot of my frustration and passion about the downtown situation over the last 7 or 8 years ultimately comes down to being a Dad. I brought my daughter to One Spark when she was just a baby, and it was just the greatest time. And I took a job downtown in 2017 because I wanted to be part of that growth, support downtown business, and have this awesome place to spend time with her as she grew up. She's turning 11 this weekend, and I can't even bring her down to the office to hang out on the weekend because there are vagrants camped out in our entrance and all of our favorite spots on Laura Street are closed. Having a vibrant, clean, safe urban area is just so vital to a city's quality of life, and creating a region where kids like her will want to stay and plant roots in post-college. Really breaks my heart that her entire childhood and early adulthood might pass without any real progress being made.

I got 7 more years with her here. Let’s go!
« Last Edit: December 12, 2024, 12:44:26 PM by Ken_FSU »