Unforseen consequences - sleeping in public

[fsu813]

Something not discussed about the "no sleeping in public bill" now being enforced by law enforcement....

It was meant to reduce the impact of homeless people camping whereever they like, but it could also increase the presence of homeless people in the areas of Downtown which are already saturated with related problems.

This bill, for example, would add capacity for 100+ more shelter beds within a small area of area Downtown (West of Hogan/East of Lee) that's already greatly impacted by having hundreds of shelter beds in that small area.

www.news4jax.com/news/local/2024/11/12/city-council-considers-bill-to-open-more-beds-at-shelters-as-jso-begins-enforcing-state-ban-on-sleeping-in-public-places/

So, if a person is homeless camping in X area of Jax and don't want to be arrested, they'll be relocated to this area Downtown. Funneling people with problems into a small area of the city = bad results for that chosen area.

[heights unknown]

Careful. They must be careful in the treatment of this sector of our population. What goes around comes around. It could be THEM, or US in that position; and don't ever say never. If we do the right thing(s), all will be well.

[Ken_FSU]

^My perception of the "homeless issue" has changed a lot since I started working downtown seven years ago. I'm a fairly liberal dude, and kind of grouped the entire homeless population into one bucket of people down on their luck. Have come to realize over the years that it's more complicated than that. You do have the down on their luck, who are temporarily on the streets because of life circumstances and the insane inability of the working class to afford "luxuries" like housing or medical care in 2024. These are people the city should absolutely be supporting. You've got the mentally unwell, who can't hold a job and belong in long-term, compassionate, supervised care. And then you've got a fairly large element of professional grifters - the same faces you've seen on the downtown streets and panhandling on suburban medians for years - that are healthy and able, but are perfectly content to just be a drain on society and do nothing to better their circumstances. These are the people that I've lost nearly all patience for, because they're taking limited food, shelter, and services away from the former two groups who desperately need them and killing empathy from the everyday Jaxson toward the homeless crisis.

[Lunican]

Trump said he will be rounding up all the homeless and mentally ill from the streets of our cities and put them in jail, mental institutions, or tent cities on inexpensive land (their choice).

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-homelessness-policy-tent-cities-b2322102.html

[jaxlongtimer]

Trump said he will be rounding up all the homeless and mentally ill from the streets of our cities and put them in jail, mental institutions, or tent cities on inexpensive land (their choice).

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-homelessness-policy-tent-cities-b2322102.html

^ After appointing a Fox News personality as secretary of defense and a House Rep under continuing investigation by his own party-led ethics committee for underage sex and other assorted issues as attorney general, worrying about homelessness, the economy, climate change, etc. may be moot by the time he finishes deconstructing the world as we know it.  Making a mockery of our country's institutions, history and legacies.  Our enemies are likely celebrating their good fortune.

Obviously not a fan of Trump but I was hoping Susie Wiles could provide a rudder to steer him away from his worst traits.  Apparently, that was a misplaced expectation.  I don't know how she or any other sane person hangs with him.  We were warned when over 400 people from his prior administration publicly came out against him this time.

I need to be careful here as I might be labeled an "enemy from within" subject to retribution!

[Ken_FSU]

Trump said he will be rounding up all the homeless and mentally ill from the streets of our cities and put them in jail, mental institutions, or tent cities on inexpensive land (their choice).

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-homelessness-policy-tent-cities-b2322102.html

^ After appointing a Fox News personality as secretary of defense and a House Rep under continuing investigation by his own party-led ethics committee for underage sex and other assorted issues as attorney general, worrying about homelessness, the economy, climate change, etc. may be moot by the time he finishes deconstructing the world as we know it.  Making a mockery of our country's institutions, history and legacies.  Our enemies are likely celebrating their good fortune.

Obviously not a fan of Trump but I was hoping Susie Wiles could provide a rudder to steer him away from his worst traits.  Apparently, that was a misplaced expectation.  I don't know how she or any other sane person hangs with him.  We were warned when over 400 people from his prior administration publicly came out against him this time.

I need to be careful here as I might be labeled an "enemy from within" subject to retribution!

But at least gas prices will be 20 cents lower and the wealthy will get some additional tax breaks.

Lord knows the Dems can be their own worst enemies, but as the Dad of a 10-year-old girl that I'd love to see have breathable air in 50 years and not bleed out after a miscarriage because the government won't sign off on a D&C, I can't wrap my head around the 50%+ of the country that said, "Let's go with the rapist. The dude with 34 felonies pending. The dude with Vladmir Putin and Kim Jong Un on speed dial. The dude who thinks Hitler was just a little misunderstood. The dude who thinks "grab them by the pussy" is the best way to convince a woman to do what you want. The dude who wants to kick 5% of Floridians out of the country, breaking up families and tanking our service economy. The dude who promised to pardon insurrectionists who stormed the U.S. capital. The dude who thinks that immigrants are eating our pets and that public schools are performing surgical gender changes. The dude building a new government department named after meme cryptocurrency as a gift for Elon Musk. THAT's the guy I want. The dude from Epstein's plane."

It's genuinely disgusting, and heartbreaking, and such a far cry from the progress in tolerance and civility that felt like it was being made 15 years ago.

I get it. I'm college educated with a white collar job. Inflation (brought on by covid-era stimulus, greed, labor and supply shortages, and deregulation - and now on a stable track toward the Fed's 2% goal) hasn't hit me as hard as it's hit others. Ditto shelter and energy costs. I can genuinely see how someone could look at their personal economic situation under Trump in 2018 and think they're worse off (following a global pandemic) in 2024. I can also see how the religious hardliners are going to naturally vote for the candidate that allows them to try to impose their pro-life views onto the rest of the state or country.

I can't, however, begin to comprehend how anyone could look at the whole of his recent actions and history, candidacy, criminal record, Cabinet choices, general view towards women and foreigners, and even economic policy, and not think this guy isn't a wild, insane threat to basic American decency and democracy.

This stuff genuinely hits differently when you're having to explain it to your child. When the fucking school janitor disappears. Or when her low-income classmates lose their free lunch. Or why the school is removing books and awkwardly teaching about the benefits of slavery toward black Americans. Or why hundreds of regulations involving clean air, water, wildlife and toxic chemicals are being unceremoniously rolled back.

Absolute, unbridled, reckless insanity that anyone would willingly sign on for four more years of this.

[fsu813]

Something not discussed about the "no sleeping in public bill" now being enforced by law enforcement....

It was meant to reduce the impact of homeless people camping whereever they like, but it could also increase the presence of homeless people in the areas of Downtown which are already saturated with related problems.

This bill, for example, would add capacity for 100+ more shelter beds within a small area of area Downtown (West of Hogan/East of Lee) that's already greatly impacted by having hundreds of shelter beds in that small area.

www.news4jax.com/news/local/2024/11/12/city-council-considers-bill-to-open-more-beds-at-shelters-as-jso-begins-enforcing-state-ban-on-sleeping-in-public-places/

So, if a person is homeless camping in X area of Jax and don't want to be arrested, they'll be relocated to this area Downtown. Funneling people with problems into a small area of the city = bad results for that chosen area.

I can't imagine Gateway Jax, for example, likes this after just investing $$$ in the revitalization of that part of Downtown.

[thelakelander]

Traffic heading east from I-95 on Union Street is where the largest one-way flow of visitors are introduced to downtown. So this same area is a major gateway and they say that a first impression, is a lasting impression.....

[Steve]

This makes no sense - I thought the goal was to move this to Sulzbacher's new facility off of Golfair?

[jax_hwy_engineer]

Traffic heading east from I-95 on Union Street is where the largest one-way flow of visitors are introduced to downtown. So this same area is a major gateway and they say that a first impression, is a lasting impression.....

the drive along Union is about as bleak as it gets in this city

[jaxlongtimer]

Traffic heading east from I-95 on Union Street is where the largest one-way flow of visitors are introduced to downtown. So this same area is a major gateway and they say that a first impression, is a lasting impression.....

Union and State should just be reduced to what they really are, a connection from I-95 to Arlington/Matthews Bridge... do not pass go.  Those streets do little for adding to the attraction of downtown and, more likely, are a subtraction.  The better gateway to downtown should be Beaver Street and maybe that is what the Gateway development people are counting on given the location of their project around Beaver and the name they gave their project  .  DIA is too incompetent to figure this out by themselves based on their history.

[acme54321]

Traffic heading east from I-95 on Union Street is where the largest one-way flow of visitors are introduced to downtown. So this same area is a major gateway and they say that a first impression, is a lasting impression.....

Union and State should just be reduced to what they really are, a connection from I-95 to Arlington/Matthews Bridge... do not pass go.  Those streets do little for adding to the attraction of downtown and, more likely, are a subtraction.  The better gateway to downtown should be Beaver Street and maybe that is what the Gateway development people are counting on given the location of their project around Beaver and the name they gave their project  .  DIA is too incompetent to figure this out by themselves based on their history.

I'd like to see a study of the affects on traffic if the expressway portion was removed between downtown and MLK Pkwy.  Forcing all of that through traffic up and around on MLK Parkway.

[Charles Hunter]

I'd like to see a study of the affects on traffic if the expressway portion was removed between downtown and MLK Pkwy.  Forcing all of that through traffic up and around on MLK Parkway.

It would be easy to test with the traffic models the North Florida TPO and JTA have - just remove the links between Liberty Street and APRandolph Street.

If this were done, State and Union could be right-sized, and perhaps made 2-way (although the State Street access to I-95 South would have to be reconfigured). [This would require a little more intensive model work, to recode each of the links of State and Union west of Liberty Street.]

Some semi-educated guesses:
For traffic between I-95 and Arlington:
1. Some, perhaps the majority, will use MLK - I would improve the I-95/MLK interchange to facilitate this
2. Some, perhaps the 2nd biggest share, if not the biggest, would use the new I-95 interchange at Atlantic Boulevard
3. Traffic would disperse among the east-west streets between APR and I-95.

For traffic between Downtown and Arlington - the above, without the MLK option, as it doesn't really serve downtown
4. Traffic would also use the remaining downtown bridges (Hart, Main St., and Acosta) to connect to Atlantic Blvd.

Major events in the Sports and Entertainment District - it will take longer to clear after events
5. Everyone would use the U2C! - no, wait, that's not right
6. All of the above (except the JTA employees who will be required to use the U2C)

[CityLife]

JSO put out a social media post yesterday that they have been enforcing the ban since October 1. It mentioned their "homeward bound" program where homeless are provided bus tickets home. This program has already been around, but they have sent 42 homeless people home since October 1.  Sadly, Florida is a desirable destination for many homeless from the fall through spring. Essentially homeless snowbirds. Hopefully this will deter them from coming down here altogether.

I'm sure there will be some growing pains from this legislation, but at the same time, it will ideally prevent things like LA's Skid Row or San Fran's Tenderloin from ever happening in Florida. Downtown Miami had a mini tent city starting to evolve between Flagler and the Miami River, and State/Union has long been an issue in Jax.

The solution for Jax is the same as it's always been. Keep sending out of town homeless away and decentralize homeless/social services so that Downtown and it's surrounding neighborhoods don't bear the entire burden of the problem. At the macro level, the country needs to do a substantially better job at taking care of people with mental illnesses and terminal drug addictions. According to a quick google search, we spent about $3-4 billion federal dollars on homeless services last year (is it really that low Bill?). That is a drop in the bucket compared to the total budget. We've probably spent more money helping Ukrainian refugees than our own citizens, with a total of $175 billion spent there since 2022...

[Jagsdrew]

I'd like to see a study of the affects on traffic if the expressway portion was removed between downtown and MLK Pkwy.  Forcing all of that through traffic up and around on MLK Parkway.

It would be easy to test with the traffic models the North Florida TPO and JTA have - just remove the links between Liberty Street and APRandolph Street.

If this were done, State and Union could be right-sized, and perhaps made 2-way (although the State Street access to I-95 South would have to be reconfigured). [This would require a little more intensive model work, to recode each of the links of State and Union west of Liberty Street.]

Some semi-educated guesses:
For traffic between I-95 and Arlington:
1. Some, perhaps the majority, will use MLK - I would improve the I-95/MLK interchange to facilitate this
2. Some, perhaps the 2nd biggest share, if not the biggest, would use the new I-95 interchange at Atlantic Boulevard
3. Traffic would disperse among the east-west streets between APR and I-95.

For traffic between Downtown and Arlington - the above, without the MLK option, as it doesn't really serve downtown
4. Traffic would also use the remaining downtown bridges (Hart, Main St., and Acosta) to connect to Atlantic Blvd.

Major events in the Sports and Entertainment District - it will take longer to clear after events
5. Everyone would use the U2C! - no, wait, that's not right
6. All of the above (except the JTA employees who will be required to use the U2C)

Probably be a good time to address this when the bridge replacements are needed for both Hart and Mathews. All those interchanges and ramps will be reconfigured at the base of the bridges to accommodate sports complex traffic and E/W flow of commuter traffic. Plus all of those are severely not up to design standards.