Author Topic: Three high-impact downtown developments could require $244 million in incentives  (Read 10337 times)

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35031
    • Modern Cities
Most of my old downtown coworkers, who moved in from other cities and initially decided to live downtown, eventually ended up in Riverside, Springfield or San Marco. The adjacent neighborhoods offered more of the urban lifestyle and amenities that they were looking for.

When I worked in Ponte Vedra, the majority of that group lived in the beaches, St. Augustine or Nocatee. Same profession, but two totally different cultures of personal and lifestyle preferences.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

fsu813

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1638
Same profession, but two totally different cultures of personal and lifestyle preferences.

#Saltlife v #Porchlife

The Hatfields and McCoys of our time.

acme54321

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3082
gateway-jax-buys-276-acre-site-downtown-from-fscj-for-future

Interesting move for Gateway.  It would be extra interesting if they picked up the properties on the other side of main.

vicupstate

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3866
Quote
Leadership has come & gone for decades. DT hasn't been a warzone forever, and I personally know people that used to frequently visit downtown post consolidation. Things can change & they have. If you think consolidation is just a crutch, you are a part of the problem frankly. Think I'm wrong? Look up your examples and you'll find a much more robust system with much more effort on zoning & building policy. You also completely discount the complexities of dealing with wetlands. You also won't see PUD's like we do here, which quite literally indicates a failed zoning policy.

There is absolutely NOTHING in the city charter that precludes JAX from pursuing ANY and ALL of the zoning and building policies that you claim are needed to replicate the success of those cities. There simply has not been the leadership that realized what was needed and pursued it. The discussion of Baymeadows, et al is meaningless. ALL cities have suburban office markets, including the consolidated cities I mentioned.  What has held JAX back is a lack of understanding of what makes a vibrant urban environment and/or a lack of commitment to bring it about.  Also adding immensely to the problem is term limits (particularly on the mayor) and the uber partisan nature of JAX city politics.   
"The problem with quotes on the internet is you can never be certain they're authentic." - Abraham Lincoln

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35031
    • Modern Cities
gateway-jax-buys-276-acre-site-downtown-from-fscj-for-future

Interesting move for Gateway.  It would be extra interesting if they picked up the properties on the other side of main.

They already own the two blocks across the street on Main!
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Charles Hunter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5178
gateway-jax-buys-276-acre-site-downtown-from-fscj-for-future

Interesting move for Gateway.  It would be extra interesting if they picked up the properties on the other side of main.

Decimals are important - 2.76-acre site - bound by Laura, State, and Main Streets
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/jun/12/gateway-jax-buys-276-acre-site-downtown-from-fscj-for-future-use/

Ken_FSU

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1660
Same profession, but two totally different cultures of personal and lifestyle preferences.

#Saltlife v #Porchlife

The Hatfields and McCoys of our time.


Love this  :D

Really interesting discussion.

In terms of demographics, I think what I was ultimately getting at with my anecdote about younger and older coworkers living at the Beaches and PVB respectively and whether downtown is handicapped by having to compete with the beaches is this:

Perhaps it’s unrealistic, but when I think of what a rapidly developing downtown Jacksonville might look like if some of these proposed projects over the years had to come to life, I think of what I see in places like Midtown Atlanta, urban Nashville, Tampa’s Water Street, downtown Kansas City, etc. In most of these booming urban areas, the contagious residential and retail growth seems to be primarily driven by young professionals with disposable income, and older empty nesters or retirees with disposable income. Market rate (and above) housing driving higher end retail and entertainment.

Jacksonville has grown a lot, but we still don’t have the volume of high paying jobs that other cities our size do. In a city without a ton of available housing near the ocean, a $3,000 apartment at Rise Doro might be more attractive to this demographic. In the absence of a great urban environment, and with finite professional jobs in the city, I think we’d be foolish in our downtown planning to not view places like the beaches, SJTC, or even (::shudder:: ) SJC as competition for injecting economic vitality into the city center. I don’t see how downtown Jax reaches critical mass without displacing some residents from some of these areas.

It’s why I love the Gateway vision. Feels like, if completed, it will can fulfill that overblown Lot J-style promise of creating a new urban neighborhood that draws in that key demo from other urban and suburban centers that things like retail and amenities tend to follow.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2024, 10:17:18 PM by Ken_FSU »

acme54321

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3082
gateway-jax-buys-276-acre-site-downtown-from-fscj-for-future

Interesting move for Gateway.  It would be extra interesting if they picked up the properties on the other side of main.

They already own the two blocks across the street on Main!

Well then!

Charles Hunter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5178
Does Gateway own the JTA TOD blocks between State and Union adjacent to the Rosa Parks station? I noticed the fence around those blocks has "Gateway" banners.

Jax_Developer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 598
Does Gateway own the JTA TOD blocks between State and Union adjacent to the Rosa Parks station? I noticed the fence around those blocks has "Gateway" banners.

I believe the TOD sites are 99-year ground leases. Same goes for the "other" Corner Lot TOD project that is in planning.

--

Well said Ken. We will never displace the masses, but there are certainly groups of people in these areas that would rather live in a DT or urban enviroment that choose to live where they are for various reasons.