Author Topic: City unveils Jaguars stadium plan  (Read 34148 times)

Jax_Developer

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Re: City unveils Jaguars stadium plan
« Reply #210 on: September 09, 2024, 08:05:49 PM »
@Lake, it sounds like that you are okay to spend $3 of COJ money to get $1 for the Eastside. That is essentially what is happening in this deal. Why not just spend $3 to get $3 for the Eastside? Also stating "Because the negative impact of displacement and gentrification is a serious community concern" isn't really addressing the issue here at all. This Stadium Deal will only further gentrification & the market since the deal was announced has proved that. Again, please explain how funding 10+ years from now that we can't leverage will do anything to help what you stated? Hell, 5 years... You could care less about Buffalo, but the point remains that the city/state didn't need to come out of pocket to get that commitment like the Jags have. Again, we have less than 50:50 split & also supposedly these CBA's are for the betterment of disenfranchised communities. The Jags were also able to turn that into a positive monetary return for their own dollar... that we have already subsidized.

@Marcus. If you have been following the legislation & watched any of the meetings, you would have also realized that this deal was not done back in May & has since been tweaked multiple times in minor ways. You, Lake, & others have defended this deal, to be blunt, because of the CBA. The CBA is quite literally the distraction for the bull. How hard have you really looked into this deal? It is comical to see the Jags own lawyer completely dismantle their own logic for their own CBA funding. It's a money grab & these most recent comments prove that. This also demonstrates the willingness of the Jags to flex their muscle in the agreement for which we need their mercy. Aka, back to the $25M credit & parking agreement. There has been quite a bit of dialogue & discussion since May, and it has only exposed that this deal was rushed. No other way to say it. City Council realized that only a month or so ago. The parking deal will absolutely blow up in our faces or we will pay handsomely in another fashion. 12 months or less & you can quote this post. We can cherry pick deals all we want, but looking at just the bottom-line numbers for a deal, is not genuine to this discussion at all. I've said before several times, that containing this deal with the stadium was all that was needed for us to do. We tried a little too hard here & will reap the rewards of that.

@Jaxlongtimer, I'm sure its similar, but if you look at the aerial around the stadium, the land is not a single-purpose & it's not anywhere near Downtown. Our 50+ acres are for Jags games, the FL GA game and that's about it. Some of the acreage gets utilized for smaller events/concerts but nowhere near what is utilized for Jags games (which is again less than 10 days a years).

@JaxoNOLE, I do agree with most of what you are saying. I'm fine with being hosed a little as a taxpayer for an NFL team. As someone who hopes to see our city improve, this deal has served as a major hurdle for our stadium district to ever truly turn around. Perhaps what's more frustrating, is to know that there will likely be a series of agreements made in the next 5 years, that will ask the taxpayer for more $$, with the promise of a flashy stadium "entertainment" district. We will of course do it, because otherwise, the land will sit vacant for the next 30 years. That's the true crime in this whole agreement. Our hands have been tied behind our backs - quite literally. Khan has moved all his chess pieces in place to get everything he wanted - with the taxpayer fronting a significant portion of the cost in anything he is involved in when it comes to DT Jacksonville. (Not the beaches though!)

thelakelander

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Re: City unveils Jaguars stadium plan
« Reply #211 on: September 09, 2024, 08:15:43 PM »
@Lake, it sounds like that you are okay to spend $3 of COJ money to get $1 for the Eastside. That is essentially what is happening in this deal. Why not just spend $3 to get $3 for the Eastside? Also stating "Because the negative impact of displacement and gentrification is a serious community concern" isn't really addressing the issue here at all. This Stadium Deal will only further gentrification & the market since the deal was announced has proved that. Again, please explain how funding 10+ years from now that we can't leverage will do anything to help what you stated? Hell, 5 years... You could care less about Buffalo, but the point remains that the city/state didn't need to come out of pocket to get that commitment like the Jags have. Again, we have less than 50:50 split & also supposedly these CBA's are for the betterment of disenfranchised communities. The Jags were also able to turn that into a positive monetary return for their own dollar... that we have already subsidized.

I'm okay with significant money being allocated to a neighborhood that has lacked investment for decades. It just appears that this stadium deal is what's needed to finally make that investment become more than lip service. Our unfortunate reality is without the Jags deal, the Eastside may as well be Moncrief, in terms of COJ actually putting up a significant bit of short term money in the community.

Eastside CBA discussion aside, I don't expect Jax to beat the NFL on a stadium deal. All stadium deals are generally money losers for second and third tier cities....Buffalo included. If Jax wants to be on the side of winning a deal based on ROI with the NFL, then the answer is going the route of San Diego and saying goodbye. That option isn't on the table and has never been.


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Also stating "Because the negative impact of displacement and gentrification is a serious community concern" isn't really addressing the issue here at all. This Stadium Deal will only further gentrification & the market since the deal was announced has proved that.

Time will tell but without a doubt, focusing on a stadium deal without attempting to provide a neighborhood with resources to better control its own destiny will simply further gentrification by leaving said neighborhood 100% at the mercy of the market with no alternatives in place.

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Again, please explain how funding 10+ years from now that we can't leverage will do anything to help what you stated? Hell, 5 years...

$30 million in funding within the first three years or so could significantly revamp APR Blvd and better position the property owners and businesses to prosper from the stadium investment and the critical mass of consumers that will be within walking distance. A TIF keeping money within the area that has been siphoned for decades to help subsidize suburbia would be an additional boost to Eastside neighborhoods. The additional annual commitment flowing into the neighborhood could have a positive by boosting neighborhood organizations and ongoing programs to resolve heirs property, financial assist vulnerable residents and stimulate additional affordable and market rate housing. No matter which way we spin it, no of this is getting funding or being seriously talked about if the Jags deal didn't materialize in this particular neighborhood. We have decades of city history to suggest the past would continue being more of the same in the future.

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You could care less about Buffalo, but the point remains that the city/state didn't need to come out of pocket to get that commitment like the Jags have. Again, we have less than 50:50 split & also supposedly these CBA's are for the betterment of disenfranchised communities.

How familiar are you with the layout of Buffalo? How is the Buffalo CBA addressing the challenges in Buffalo's East Side? Orchard Park isn't even in City of Buffalo. I'm just failing to see how Buffalo's situation, deal and context can be viewed as apples to apples.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2024, 08:30:36 PM by thelakelander »
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Jax_Developer

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Re: City unveils Jaguars stadium plan
« Reply #212 on: September 09, 2024, 08:25:03 PM »
@Lake, it sounds like that you are okay to spend $3 of COJ money to get $1 for the Eastside. That is essentially what is happening in this deal. Why not just spend $3 to get $3 for the Eastside? Also stating "Because the negative impact of displacement and gentrification is a serious community concern" isn't really addressing the issue here at all. This Stadium Deal will only further gentrification & the market since the deal was announced has proved that. Again, please explain how funding 10+ years from now that we can't leverage will do anything to help what you stated? Hell, 5 years... You could care less about Buffalo, but the point remains that the city/state didn't need to come out of pocket to get that commitment like the Jags have. Again, we have less than 50:50 split & also supposedly these CBA's are for the betterment of disenfranchised communities. The Jags were also able to turn that into a positive monetary return for their own dollar... that we have already subsidized.

I'm okay with significant money being allocated to a neighborhood that has lacked investment for decades. It just appears that this stadium deal is what's needed to finally make that investment become more than lip service. Our unfortunate reality is without the Jags deal, the Eastside may as well be Moncrief, in terms of COJ actually putting up a significant bit of short term money in the community.

Eastside CBA discussion aside, I don't expect Jax to beat the NFL on a stadium deal. All stadium deals are generally money losers for second and third tier cities....Buffalo included. If Jax wants to be on the side of winning a deal based on ROI with the NFL, then the answer is going the route of San Diego and saying goodbye. That option isn't on the table and has never been.

The whole relocation fear thing can be discussed as a hypothetical forever. I highly doubt the Jags went into the agreement saying "if we don't get these very specific terms, we're out." I don't buy that for even a second. They make good coin in Jax & have a strong support system after years of losing. Few small market teams can really say that. Should've given them the 60:40 or 70:30 split & called it a day. The Eastside doesn't deserve the money anymore than the other 10+ neighborhoods that have had the same promise broken because of poor city finances. This deal makes those areas worse off in the LR while investors focus on the Eastside for the next decade.

thelakelander

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Re: City unveils Jaguars stadium plan
« Reply #213 on: September 09, 2024, 08:37:17 PM »
^I added on some comments as you were responding.

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The Eastside doesn't deserve the money anymore than the other 10+ neighborhoods that have had the same promise broken because of poor city finances. This deal makes those areas worse off in the LR while investors focus on the Eastside for the next decade.

We will definitely have to agree to disagree on this point, which is totally okay with me. In my view, they all deserve funds and a lot more than $150 million. They've (all of these neighborhoods) been ignored for decades and have had billions moved out of them to fund economically unsustainable areas on the outskirts of the traditional core. Nevertheless, our reality is there is only one neighborhood with an NFL stadium sitting in the middle of it. So its going to face the brunt impact of this particular investment. So I understand and accept why this neighborhood would have a higher focus for this particular project. Now with this said, I'd love to see some form of a CBA incorporated into most projects of a certain size, regardless of what side of town they are on. However, that's an entirely different discussion that would include an overhaul of the city's zoning code.

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Tacachale

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Re: City unveils Jaguars stadium plan
« Reply #214 on: September 09, 2024, 11:19:21 PM »
There are some new developments here (as well as misconceptions in the thread). As this is being voted on tomorrow night, I'll break it down briefly.

*From the start, the Jaguars have been putting in $100 million into the CBA over 30 years. That's already more than the roughly $90 million Buffalo is putting in over 30 years. That money is targeted for a combination of Downtown parks (especially maintenance) the Eastside projects Ennis has been talking about, and several countywide initiatives (affordable housing, workforce development, homelessness initiatives and neighborhood parks/infrastructure).
*On top of that, the Jaguars are agreeing to put in another $50 million over 30 years as the city is putting in $150 million in a shorter timeframe. The city contributions aren't all new spending -- in fact a bulk of them are things the city is already doing like the Downtown parks, we're just putting the funding and timeline into them to get them done. The Jaguars money will go to maintenance and support for the next 30 years.
*It's gotten complicated, but the city contributions are broken down into $56 million for the Downtown parks (the number needed to finish them) to be spent in the next 5 years; $40 million for the Eastside to be spent within the next 7 years (but probably quicker) and $54 for the various countywide initiatives to be spent within the next 15 years (but again, probably quicker).
*The funding and projects are specifically allocated for particular things and a board will be stood up to oversee it over the life of the stadium deal.
*On a personal note, as both a staffer for the mayor and as an Urban Core advocate, I'm thrilled with the CBA and very much hope it passes out of council tomorrow. I'm looking forward to the smart investment in quality of life and in particular, the neighborhoods most susceptible to being impacted by the stadium reconstruction. This CBA will be a model for others and the Eastside investments will be a model for other neighborhoods in Jax and across the country.
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Tacachale

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Re: City unveils Jaguars stadium plan
« Reply #215 on: September 10, 2024, 09:38:27 PM »
The CBA was voted up by City Council. A lot of hard work went into this, and tomorrow we start on even more.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

thelakelander

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Re: City unveils Jaguars stadium plan
« Reply #216 on: September 10, 2024, 09:46:44 PM »
Wonderful! Very happy to see it move forward!
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Ken_FSU

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Re: City unveils Jaguars stadium plan
« Reply #217 on: September 10, 2024, 10:59:29 PM »
Congrats Bill, great work, huge win for Jax!

jcjohnpaint

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Re: City unveils Jaguars stadium plan
« Reply #218 on: September 11, 2024, 07:50:07 AM »
Awesome News!

WarDamJagFan

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Re: City unveils Jaguars stadium plan
« Reply #219 on: September 11, 2024, 11:09:01 AM »
Is the CBA mostly for the immediate surroundings of the stadium? Because the rot of the northbank core seems to be nearing a point of no return as time moves on...
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/sep/11/founder-of-dalton-agency-says-he-feels-forced-to-leave-downtown/

thelakelander

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Re: City unveils Jaguars stadium plan
« Reply #220 on: September 11, 2024, 11:28:15 AM »
A significant portion is for the Northbank park projects.
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Tacachale

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Re: City unveils Jaguars stadium plan
« Reply #221 on: September 11, 2024, 11:28:33 AM »
Thanks all! Flying to Michigan today but I got up feeling over the moon. We also had pensions for cops and firefighters passed out last night, as well as a big women’s health initiative, the initial funding for Jacksonville Journey Forward and many other items. The budget is up in two weeks which has a lot of other priorities for the year. Onward and forward!
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Tacachale

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Re: City unveils Jaguars stadium plan
« Reply #222 on: September 11, 2024, 11:38:00 AM »
A significant portion is for the Northbank park projects.

Need to check the exact breakdown due to the recent changes, but between the Downtown parks and Eastside are the two biggest items. Most of the countywide stuff is coming from the city’s portion. Dalton was speaking in favor of our new homelessness initiatives which hopefully will get funded and out the door in the budget vote on Sept. 24. All that probably deserves its own thread.
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acme54321

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Re: City unveils Jaguars stadium plan
« Reply #223 on: September 11, 2024, 02:17:24 PM »
Is the CBA mostly for the immediate surroundings of the stadium? Because the rot of the northbank core seems to be nearing a point of no return as time moves on...
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2024/sep/11/founder-of-dalton-agency-says-he-feels-forced-to-leave-downtown/

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thelakelander

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Re: City unveils Jaguars stadium plan
« Reply #224 on: September 12, 2024, 07:51:21 AM »
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City Council locks in city's share of agreement with Jaguars for community improvements

Jacksonville City Council finalized putting up $150 million for a community benefits agreement and that commitment will attract the maximum $150 million match from the Jaguars in a partnership that will mainly direct spending to the Eastside neighborhood and downtown parks in walking distance of the stadium.

City Council agreed Tuesday to the full amount of city taxpayer dollars that Mayor Donna Deegan negotiated with the Jaguars for the community benefits agreement, which is a side agreement to the $1.4 billion renovation of the football stadium that will keep the Jaguars playing there for another 30 years.

The city's $150 million for the community benefits agreement will be on top of the $775 million it will pay toward the stadium reconstruction in tandem with Jaguars owner Shad Khan. City Council approved the stadium deal in June but spent another two months examining the community benefits agreement before finalizing it on a 13-2 vote Tuesday night.

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Ariane Randolph, who is the fourth generation of her family to live in the historically Black neighborhood, said Eastside residents "had a seat at the table and that was empowering" when the special committee did its work on the legislation.

"Residents like myself have been working very hard to advocate for our children to come back and make Eastside home and make Jacksonville home," she said. "So we want to continue that. This is just another step."

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2024/09/11/jacksonville-finalizes-community-benefits-agreement-with-jaguars/75165820007/
« Last Edit: September 12, 2024, 07:56:15 AM by thelakelander »
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