Author Topic: As Jacksonville grows, UNF aims to enroll 25,000 students by 2028  (Read 4462 times)

Tacachale

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Re: As Jacksonville grows, UNF aims to enroll 25,000 students by 2028
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2024, 10:28:09 AM »
I dunno man, I was at a state university not that long ago and a lot of the hysteria seemed obviously overplayed then. Unless you’re trying to say that somehow this only actually became a problem between 2021 when I graduated and now, I don’t think the evidence really backs what you’re claiming. Some people are trans, that’s not a big deal. It’s their life, not mine. I know plenty and they seem a lot happier being themselves than trying to cover that up to satisfy someone else.

The idea of using state power in a desperate attempt to rewind culture to 15 years ago sounds patently absurd. And willing to burn our education system to the ground if it means you feel you’ve punished or pushed out people you don’t agree with seems like a bad way to keep a place competitive long-term. It’s not like it’s proving more economical to pull these stunts either, look at how much more Richard Corcoran is being paid at New College over his predecessor, or Ben Sasse at UF compared to his predecessor. I don’t see the value of ruining a perfectly fine thing for an ideological project against a minority of people when we have so many real, bigger problems in this state.

^This. The state's various social engineering efforts are absolutely hurting our university system in all sorts of ways, which had become one of our strongest points. It's much harder to recruit and keep good faculty and staff, and everyone I know from the Florida state university and college systems says it's only getting worse. And while the architects of these moves hoped there'd be some mass influx of right wing professors, it hasn't happened.

I know that trans kids are a huge boogeyman for right wingers, but they're a small minority of people. It's truly nuts how much the state is doing and how much money and effort they're wasting just to hurt such a small group of people.

The anti-diversity push is also just another boogeyman. I doubt there's any college in the world that has spent 30% of their money "toward DEI salary & budget". At UNF, last year we spent $3.5 million on all our diversity initiatives combined. Our total budget was $352 million. That's less that 1%. We had only 15 diversity-related positions out of 1,765 faculty and staff. Yes, really. Just a total waste for no gain.

What we'll lose is a lot more than that. UNF, Jacksonville and Florida are increasingly diverse, which was the real aim of our diversity initiatives -- making it so our diverse student body had the resources they needed to be successful in college. Most people don't have a problem with, for instance, financial aid, which has the same aim -- making college attainable for working and middle class students. Our LGBT Center was a real gem, the best in the state, and it made UNF a mecca for LGBTQ students. Now, LGBTQ students are increasingly fleeing Florida because the state government decided to use them to score political points.

Combine that with the state's assault on academic freedom at college, its actions on the grade school level with the book bans, attacks on teachers, etc., we're in a very bad place for education in the state of Florida. I have no doubt much of this insanity will be reversed in the future, but the damage will be done.

This is the most "I have lived in Florida my whole life" response I have ever read. Lol. Almost nobody is going to UNF in Jacksonville, FL for LGBTQ services. People goto schools like mine where the support for them is actually world-class. We had a clinic on school with LGBTQ services. You won't find a state school providing anywhere near what a PWI could provide.

And that is the most obviously elitist response I've read this side of Simms, lol.

I get from your responses that you're fairly young, so I'm not going to dump all over you. I worked at UNF for a long time, including in student affairs and enrollment services. I'm very familiar with the offerings and the student body at UNF and the State University System.

I'm sure your world-class, primarily white private college had great resources. This may come as a shock, but not all kids, including LGBTQ kids, can afford to go out of state to a school like that. And more to the point, if it's out of state and private, it's not affected by the draconian laws happening in Florida.

And while I very much doubt any school is spending 30% of its budget on diversity initiatives, especially when they evidently don't actually have diverse student bodies, your comments about your school get at the real point of this conversation. Politicians in Florida are looking at elitist private schools and the crazy things they supposedly do, and using that as an excuse to bludgeon their own state schools where those things were never happening. Meanwhile, these laws don't affect the elitist private schools or the kids who can afford to go to them. That's a feature, not a bug.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2024, 10:55:31 AM by Tacachale »
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Jax_Developer

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Re: As Jacksonville grows, UNF aims to enroll 25,000 students by 2028
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2024, 07:28:12 AM »
I dunno man, I was at a state university not that long ago and a lot of the hysteria seemed obviously overplayed then. Unless you’re trying to say that somehow this only actually became a problem between 2021 when I graduated and now, I don’t think the evidence really backs what you’re claiming. Some people are trans, that’s not a big deal. It’s their life, not mine. I know plenty and they seem a lot happier being themselves than trying to cover that up to satisfy someone else.

The idea of using state power in a desperate attempt to rewind culture to 15 years ago sounds patently absurd. And willing to burn our education system to the ground if it means you feel you’ve punished or pushed out people you don’t agree with seems like a bad way to keep a place competitive long-term. It’s not like it’s proving more economical to pull these stunts either, look at how much more Richard Corcoran is being paid at New College over his predecessor, or Ben Sasse at UF compared to his predecessor. I don’t see the value of ruining a perfectly fine thing for an ideological project against a minority of people when we have so many real, bigger problems in this state.

^This. The state's various social engineering efforts are absolutely hurting our university system in all sorts of ways, which had become one of our strongest points. It's much harder to recruit and keep good faculty and staff, and everyone I know from the Florida state university and college systems says it's only getting worse. And while the architects of these moves hoped there'd be some mass influx of right wing professors, it hasn't happened.

I know that trans kids are a huge boogeyman for right wingers, but they're a small minority of people. It's truly nuts how much the state is doing and how much money and effort they're wasting just to hurt such a small group of people.

The anti-diversity push is also just another boogeyman. I doubt there's any college in the world that has spent 30% of their money "toward DEI salary & budget". At UNF, last year we spent $3.5 million on all our diversity initiatives combined. Our total budget was $352 million. That's less that 1%. We had only 15 diversity-related positions out of 1,765 faculty and staff. Yes, really. Just a total waste for no gain.

What we'll lose is a lot more than that. UNF, Jacksonville and Florida are increasingly diverse, which was the real aim of our diversity initiatives -- making it so our diverse student body had the resources they needed to be successful in college. Most people don't have a problem with, for instance, financial aid, which has the same aim -- making college attainable for working and middle class students. Our LGBT Center was a real gem, the best in the state, and it made UNF a mecca for LGBTQ students. Now, LGBTQ students are increasingly fleeing Florida because the state government decided to use them to score political points.

Combine that with the state's assault on academic freedom at college, its actions on the grade school level with the book bans, attacks on teachers, etc., we're in a very bad place for education in the state of Florida. I have no doubt much of this insanity will be reversed in the future, but the damage will be done.

This is the most "I have lived in Florida my whole life" response I have ever read. Lol. Almost nobody is going to UNF in Jacksonville, FL for LGBTQ services. People goto schools like mine where the support for them is actually world-class. We had a clinic on school with LGBTQ services. You won't find a state school providing anywhere near what a PWI could provide.

And that is the most obviously elitist response I've read this side of Simms, lol.

I get from your responses that you're fairly young, so I'm not going to dump all over you. I worked at UNF for a long time, including in student affairs and enrollment services. I'm very familiar with the offerings and the student body at UNF and the State University System.

I'm sure your world-class, primarily white private college had great resources. This may come as a shock, but not all kids, including LGBTQ kids, can afford to go out of state to a school like that. And more to the point, if it's out of state and private, it's not affected by the draconian laws happening in Florida.

And while I very much doubt any school is spending 30% of its budget on diversity initiatives, especially when they evidently don't actually have diverse student bodies, your comments about your school get at the real point of this conversation. Politicians in Florida are looking at elitist private schools and the crazy things they supposedly do, and using that as an excuse to bludgeon their own state schools where those things were never happening. Meanwhile, these laws don't affect the elitist private schools or the kids who can afford to go to them. That's a feature, not a bug.

Elitist? Not going to dump all over me? Reaching for something I guess so you have to make it personal? Classic. Here, I'll go. You're dense & your opinions are so hilariously wrong that I hope you no longer work in higher education.

- "...is the mecca of LGBTQ"
- "At UNF, last year we spent $3.5 million on all our diversity initiatives combined."
- "Most people don't have a problem with, for instance, financial aid, which has the same aim -- making college attainable for working and middle class students"

Get a grip. You are literally contradicting yourself in your own response. The reason why state colleges have lower tuition is because of the lack of support services. Oh, but UNF is the mecca of this stuff with a $3.5M? Maybe, just maybe, you have a bias in place. Maybe residing in one area for so long has distorted your view on reality. Not every school has 10k+ students, with the mindsets of those who work & reside in North Florida. Only 32% of my tuition went towards teaching/academics/instruction.

My response was SIMPLY on how the idea that these colleges don't exist is just plain wrong. They do! Does that mean I support Desantis? No! Simply put, a balance needs to be achieved. Could the UF system use more funding is this department? Probably, I genuinely don't know. To act like the counter doesn't exist demonstrates a lack of critical thinking.

By implementing more "additional services" you are just adding on expense for those families who want a simple education or certification. I'm sure you don't care though, whatever it takes for UNf to be the Mecca of LGBTQ services.  8)

Maybe work with the Mayor on not making us a bottom 5 city for LGBTQ stuff then you can come on here & comment BS.

fsu813

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Re: As Jacksonville grows, UNF aims to enroll 25,000 students by 2028
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2024, 08:40:39 AM »
Fantastic article by Mark Woods in the Florida Times-Union about this subject:

"And at this point, the idea that maybe the Free State of Florida isn’t so free — that 2024 Florida has some “1984” vibes to it — isn’t just coming from the left-leaning groups state leaders frequently rail against."

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/2024/02/17/duval-county-schools-unf-plan-for-future-amidst-culture-war-winds/72605913007/

Captain Zissou

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Re: As Jacksonville grows, UNF aims to enroll 25,000 students by 2028
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2024, 12:06:48 PM »

Get a grip. You are literally contradicting yourself in your own response. 

Says the guy who whines about a school over spending on DEI and then touts their world class LBTQ services.  Sounds like you support inclusivity for certain people groups but not others. 

I had never heard the term PWI until you said it and I'm shocked that somebody would use that term in a non-derogatory way.  I attended UF and the diversity of the student population is part of what makes it so competitive and such a good school. I don't think I'd be where I am today without that environment. There were students of other backgrounds who were motivated by the opportunity to change their station in life.  They had made it to the top by hard work and they continually had to prove themselves.  I admired their motivation and work ethic and it pushed me to try harder. 

There are some students who were going to work for their parents after graduation anyway so it didn't matter if they accomplished anything other than building a 2 story beer bong.  For the rest of us who wanted to make something of ourselves, it was a grind.  We're all better for it and most of my classmates have gone on to be extremely successful.  If anything were to take that diversity of the student body away due to students not feeling comfortable or no longer having the support services for their demographic, it would damage the entire college experience and the quality of the graduates.

Jax_Developer

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Re: As Jacksonville grows, UNF aims to enroll 25,000 students by 2028
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2024, 01:03:41 PM »

Get a grip. You are literally contradicting yourself in your own response. 

Says the guy who whines about a school over spending on DEI and then touts their world class LBTQ services.  Sounds like you support inclusivity for certain people groups but not others. 

I had never heard the term PWI until you said it and I'm shocked that somebody would use that term in a non-derogatory way.  I attended UF and the diversity of the student population is part of what makes it so competitive and such a good school. I don't think I'd be where I am today without that environment. There were students of other backgrounds who were motivated by the opportunity to change their station in life.  They had made it to the top by hard work and they continually had to prove themselves.  I admired their motivation and work ethic and it pushed me to try harder. 

There are some students who were going to work for their parents after graduation anyway so it didn't matter if they accomplished anything other than building a 2 story beer bong.  For the rest of us who wanted to make something of ourselves, it was a grind.  We're all better for it and most of my classmates have gone on to be extremely successful.  If anything were to take that diversity of the student body away due to students not feeling comfortable or no longer having the support services for their demographic, it would damage the entire college experience and the quality of the graduates.

Please, make more generalizations & assumptions. Anyone else is free to get in.

PWI's are not some fancy term I made. It was taught to me. My college was around 60% white in an area that was 30% white. I didn't pick my school for any of the reasons mentioned by you Captain. I picked it because of sports. Lol. During my time there, I was exposed to a world I had no idea about. I was educated on things I otherwise wouldn't have been. I liked my time attending overall.

If you think I care even the slightest about the institutions world-class support for what we are talking about, then you don't know me. I had several friends that did care, and their literal decision criteria did involve all the support they could have at the college. (LGBTQ dorms, spaces, etc.) Unlike my colleagues, I was in the sports environment most of the time which had a very different demographic. There are hundreds of schools very similar to mine & there are several dozen that are just better schools. Mine was not unique unlike what y'all are assuming.

Nonetheless, about a third of our tuition went to what I'll call the abyss. No clue where that money ever got spent. It's classified under support, student & additional services. So it begs the question, where was that money going if so much of my school was not "diverse." Brings me back to my original point. Some colleges are located in areas where the philosophy is much different than Jacksonville, FL. $3.5M wouldn't even come close to covering the DEI clubs combined budget on campus. So where does that money go? It simply is inflating the cost of colleges. I would rather see the federal support that PWI's have, and send that to HBCU's. So even though I triggered some people here, the fact remains that.. I'm not elitist even though I'm sure that makes you guys feel better saying that. I have lived experiences that I guess just upset people because they don't fancy y'alls tickle. I'm sure the "developer" in my name triggers y'all too. I work on single-family homes & am trying to make Jacksonville a better place one property at a time. I gained motivation to do this from the experiences I had in college.

I find it ironic that I came on here to give a harmless opinion, and the responses on here literally prove the state of academia. You have people jumping to conclusions and unable to have a conversation. Only reason why I even gravitated towards this site was being able to hear opposing opinions to what I think, because sometimes I have a hard time understanding the more entrenched perspectives. I try to be respectful of comments made before but I understand some of you feel a certain way about yourself that making harsh generalizations makes you feel better about your opinion. You have to ask yourself if "you" are a contributing reason why the dialogue around colleges has gotten so polarized.

But since I'm so elitist, maybe I'll have to go talk with my other elitist friends since I went to such an elitist college & all I do is surround myself with elitist. Lol, too funny.

Tacachale

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Re: As Jacksonville grows, UNF aims to enroll 25,000 students by 2028
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2024, 12:12:45 AM »
^Obviously it touched a nerve, but my comment saying one of your responses was "obliviously elitist" was a joke based on your earlier statement "This is the most "I have lived in Florida my whole life" response I have ever read". The conversation has gone all over the place, but the original point isn't really controversial: the state government's actions are hurting the future of UNF and the other state schools. The state's efforts are based on politics and ideology, not what's best for the schools, students, communities, etc. And while it may be true that some private schools or schools in other states are doing crazy things or wasting money on diversity-related programming (although it's not likely any could really spend 30% of their budget on that), that just doesn't reflect what's happening here.  At UNF and the other Florida schools, diversity initiatives are very much based on serving students of various backgrounds. The services are a fraction of the budget and got a lot of bang for the buck. The state's decisions are a big setback with no gain.

As far as the conversation goes, obviously folks have various opinions on this topic. That's the way it goes. I don't see anything in the previous comments that's out of line or especially nasty, which is the line in this forum. Political issues can make conversations more heated, but this one's pretty par for the course. Keep it up.
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simms3

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Re: As Jacksonville grows, UNF aims to enroll 25,000 students by 2028
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2024, 02:06:59 PM »
And that is the most obviously elitist response I've read this side of Simms, lol.

I LOVE that you guys think I am the elitist on this forum when my views and philosophy *definitely* more closely mirrors the average middle class American (which also describes my own demographic).  Y'all are pretty progressive on a host of issues (not the least of which is the one we are discussing), which in reality more closely mirrors the views and philosophy of the donor class elite in this country, these days.

Fantastic article by Mark Woods in the Florida Times-Union about this subject:

"And at this point, the idea that maybe the Free State of Florida isn’t so free — that 2024 Florida has some “1984” vibes to it — isn’t just coming from the left-leaning groups state leaders frequently rail against."

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/columns/2024/02/17/duval-county-schools-unf-plan-for-future-amidst-culture-war-winds/72605913007/

Mark Woods has as much credibility these days as a wart on my thumb.  He's a hyperbolic liberal mess with a few interesting proud associations.  He's one of a slew of reasons I don't shell out my hard-earned money to the Florida Times Union anymore.


I had never heard the term PWI until you said it and I'm shocked that somebody would use that term in a non-derogatory way.

I had also never heard of the term but when I looked it up on Google, most of the results seemed to be geared towards a black audience (comparing HBCUs to PWIs for the black experience).  I'm not sure how simply using an acronym for "predominantly white institution" could be "derogatory".  It's simply descriptive in an era in which everyone is obsessed with race.

I attended UF and the diversity of the student population is part of what makes it so competitive and such a good school. I don't think I'd be where I am today without that environment. There were students of other backgrounds who were motivated by the opportunity to change their station in life.  They had made it to the top by hard work and they continually had to prove themselves.  I admired their motivation and work ethic and it pushed me to try harder. 

There are some students who were going to work for their parents after graduation anyway so it didn't matter if they accomplished anything other than building a 2 story beer bong.  For the rest of us who wanted to make something of ourselves, it was a grind.  We're all better for it and most of my classmates have gone on to be extremely successful.  If anything were to take that diversity of the student body away due to students not feeling comfortable or no longer having the support services for their demographic, it would damage the entire college experience and the quality of the graduates.

I'm not here to agree or disagree with you except state that the way you write this comes across as "diversity for the sake of diversity = automatically good/better and white people, especially those with certain lots in life = automatically bad beer bonging bros".  I don't fault you for it, it's a pretty common and acceptable mentality to have these days.

I prefer strictly merit based (which is NOT the system we are living in now) and I believe we can get to a point where merit based will in fact still ensure tons of diversity that mirrors the population, but my philosophy on how to get there in this country makes me a traditional conservative and my progressive opponents act like we'll never get there so it's all automatic diversity and equity now without actually helping anyone (and thus lowering standards right and left in every aspect of life, as we can all notice).
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Tacachale

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Re: As Jacksonville grows, UNF aims to enroll 25,000 students by 2028
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2024, 09:28:40 AM »
And that is the most obviously elitist response I've read this side of Simms, lol.

I LOVE that you guys think I am the elitist on this forum when my views and philosophy *definitely* more closely mirrors the average middle class American (which also describes my own demographic).  Y'all are pretty progressive on a host of issues (not the least of which is the one we are discussing), which in reality more closely mirrors the views and philosophy of the donor class elite in this country, these days.


I (jokingly) called your comments elitist because you have a tendency to say elitist things that you seem to think are more common among the populace than they are, for instance the above comment.
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Captain Zissou

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Re: As Jacksonville grows, UNF aims to enroll 25,000 students by 2028
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2024, 12:50:47 PM »
I'm not here to agree or disagree with you except state that the way you write this comes across as "diversity for the sake of diversity = automatically good/better and white people, especially those with certain lots in life = automatically bad beer bonging bros".  I don't fault you for it, it's a pretty common and acceptable mentality to have these days.

That was not my intention.  UF is a very selective school, so everyone got there by some merit.  It is much easier to get full bright futures than get into UF. Most students who go there don't have to pay for their schooling which opens the applicant pool to a more diverse group of people. Due to being able to draw from students of all income levels and selective enough to only choose those who are most qualified, UF has achieved the merit based system you're talking about. 

I am self aware enough to know that I wasn't born on third and think I hit a triple, but I was definitely born rounding first.  I was in the business school and one of the more involved students. Of the other highly involved students who were at the top of the class, most did not share my background and had to work harder to get where they were. These students pushed those around them to work harder and the group was better for it.