Gateway Jax - $500 million for Downtown Project?

[fsu813]

I would argue it's a larger impact on the trajectory of Downtown Jacksonville than a new stadium + adjacent entertainment village, and at roughly 1/5th the price to tax payers. Actually, far less.... the Jags price tag thus far doesn't include the entertainment village.

It's not either/or, but the desired incentives for this project seem very reasonable for its impact.

[Skybox111]

Yes but the stadium is also a very big deal economically. People polled and said maybe jaguars should buy the the stadium they are not going to buy it it belongs to the city. Also its not just the jaguars its the monster jam ,concerts , mls soccer , college football , fl ga game and other stuff everyone keeps forgetting that. The city does benefit from all that.  bay street restaurants and hotels all over the city make profit from that so a high end stadium that can accommodate all that is worth it even if a majority don’t go there alot of other people do even out of towners which is tourists. Mixed use district also important especially if uf plans that location as well. Jags can’t all pay all of that they need money for new players and gear etc. we shouldn’t be have khan pay for everything even though he’s a billionaire he can still lose a lot of that money like his flex n gate which makes car parts since the auto strike he may have to shift money around to the keep the company afloat. We the taxpayer have to chip in to gets things we cant be selfish in having someone else pay for it. If we pay for its also ours later down the road. 

[edjax]

And unlike Southeast with the Trio, they actually seem to have the money for this. Seems unfortunate they're still looking to ask for $135 million from the city but the bang-for-buck doesn't seem too unreasonable.

Sure would be nice if this group could somehow buy out the Southeast guy and finally make something happen.

[Jax_Developer]

The stadium item will be the largest economic conversation this city has this decade. They are a multi-billion dollar company at the end of the day.. We don't have many of those locally. I'm very excited for Gateway, and I think the combination of the two could be what downtown really needs to stop the constant incentives for every project.

[Skybox111]

 i know and i am all for both of these projects. and i read gateway could reach 2 billion dollars phase 1 500 million and 2 billion in 10 years. They talk about 20 blocks being developed is that new blocks from gateway in time or combined with projects like jones bros and all them.

[RatTownRyan]

I was also wondering about the 20 block figure. There is no mention of where those 15 blocks are located. Any ideas?

[thelakelander]

Primarily in the areas that most have foolishly ignored in downtown. Areas of the Northbank like Noco, LaVilla, etc. close to populations that the privileged tend to shy away from. It's these types of projects that we know are coming down the pipeline, that may not immediately be ready for public consumption, that makes us fight to keep the pedestrian hostile projects like Daily's and JTA's AV maintenance shed, from screwing up the overall revitalization plan.

[Steve]

What I think is interesting is that this is going on with the Jags negotiations in the background. Obviously there's no stadium component with Gateway but there's still a compare and contrast aspect.

[Jax_Developer]

Agreed, and as someone pointed out previously (maybe Lake) they have been quiet on the details of the surrounding development. Would make you think they were waiting to see what Gateway's incentive package would pencil out to be.

[acme54321]

That UF campus NEEDS to be adjacent to FSCJ.

[thelakelander]

^Why FSCJ? Because of this Gateway project or that its a better fit there than APR?

[acme54321]

^Why FSCJ? Because of this Gateway project or that its a better fit there than APR?

I've thought it made more sense from the start than in the sports district, but this Gateway project makes it even a better choice.

-FSCJ's property is a totally underutilized hole between downtown and Springfield.  70% of it is surface parking or vacant.
-Colocation with existing educational land use
-FSCJ is closer to the business core
-Greater benefit potential for Lavilla, Downtown Core and the Broad/Boulevard St corridor vs. Eastside neighborhood.
-Now potential direct interaction with Gateway Jax to enourage a walkable "bridging" development across the State and Union corridor.


 

[jaxlongtimer]

Not convinced FSJ is the best or preferred site.  The downtown campus is, effectively, a commuter school so those parking lots are essential for its students.  Not like we have great mass transit to get them there otherwise.  I also hear they may have a master/long range plan for their needs that may require more intense use of their holdings over time.  Regardless, as Jax's population grows, they need to have room to grow with it.

Already discussed here is the former JEA tower complex.  Gateway has now said they also have interest.  With all the empty or underused real estate in the core, the closer UF is to the center of it, the better for downtown, IMHO.  State & Union, in their present state, are physical barriers for students to deal with to access downtown. 

An additional caveat:  My experience with urban/town campuses, is students won't leave the comfort of their campus environment very much to begin with.  Maybe due to all there needs met on or close to campus, a feeling of security, living in the college "bubble" with their social peers, laziness to walk farther distances, lack of interest in the "real world" outside of campus, lack of familiarity with the off campus world...  Admittedly, graduate students might interact a bit more, but maybe not as much as some would expect for the above reasons.

[thelakelander]

Not convinced FSJ is the best or preferred site.  The downtown campus is, effectively, a commuter school so those parking lots are essential for its students.  Not like we have great mass transit to get them there otherwise.  I also hear they may have a master/long range plan for their needs that may require more intense use of their holdings over time.  Regardless, as Jax's population grows, they need to have room to grow with it.

^I think both locations have their pros and cons, but at any location, they'd simply build garages to accommodate parking needs. So I don't see parking as a significant factor at this point.

Already discussed here is the former JEA tower complex.  Gateway has now said they also have interest.  With all the empty or underused real estate in the core, the closer UF is to the center of it, the better for downtown, IMHO.  State & Union, in their present state, are physical barriers for students to deal with to access downtown.

I'm not sure that the JEA Tower complex makes much sense. It's highest and best use is likely what it was originally designed for.....retail/office space. With FSCJ, there is some synergy in terms of higher education, proximity to UF Health and the Hogans Creek Promenade. It would be possible to extend an elevated pedestrian overpass over State Street to directly connect those campus' with the Skyway's Rosa Parks Station. Gateway and other future projects along the State and Union corridor, also potentially can make those corridors more of a retail destination that any other strip in the Northbank.

An additional caveat:  My experience with urban/town campuses, is students won't leave the comfort of their campus environment very much to begin with.  Maybe due to all there needs met on or close to campus, a feeling of security, living in the college "bubble" with their social peers, laziness to walk farther distances, lack of interest in the "real world" outside of campus, lack of familiarity with the off campus world...  Admittedly, graduate students might interact a bit more, but maybe not as much as some would expect for the above reasons.

My experience was very different in Tallahassee (assuming we're calling FAMU and FSU's campus an urban/town environment). At FAMU, basically only freshman lived in the on-campus dorms. My first year, I lived on-campus at FAMU, dated a FSU student who lived on-campus at that school (I washed my clothes at her place), worked at Winn-Dixie on West Tennessee Street, went to church on Springhill Road (near the airport), etc. I also spent a lot of time at Tallahassee Mall, Governors Square, Guthries, etc. In other words, I spent a lot of time on campus but I also had a car and was all over Tallahassee. 

My remaining four years, I lived in off-campus apartments, worked off-campus and really became more of a commuter, specifically to the School of Architecture building, then spending any time on-campus. Overall, I probably visited FSU's library more so than I did FAMU's during my time in school there.

[jaxlongtimer]

^ My experience is more with students not having cars.  If they have cars, at this point, students at UF are probably headed to the beach or Town Center, not downtown.  I was sticking with walkable setups, not auto-centric, but, either way, not sure downtown will fully reap the traffic possibilities unless businesses do something to cater more to typical student life.  I could see students headed over to Chamblin's bookstore, for example.

LOL, you didn't date your friend just so she would clean your clothes?!  Did she cook for you too  ?