Author Topic: Duval County Public Schools narrows list of bidders for headquarters move  (Read 29208 times)

Charles Hunter

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I went through the staff's slide presentation.  The elephant in the room is that, of all the options, staying put and renovating their building is far and away the cheapest option.

An insider told me the only reason for considering a move is for the political optics created by our dysfunctional school board.  When the school tax was passed, there was also a provision/promise that all of it would pay for schools, not administrative buildings, so where do we think this money to move will come from. 

Bottom line, everyone should be focused on improving our schools, not building a new and unnecessary new HQ's for the school board.  As many have noted, there is plenty of developable land along the river so there is no pressing need to add more.  Unlike the jail, the school board building is an office building that adds vibrancy to an area otherwise, to date, lacking same.  The development next door isn't exactly setting the world on fire so why add more land to that area.  What do we think will replace the school board building?  Another empty lot for the next few decades?

It's another boneheaded project by our elected officials IMHO. 

The presentation also says the "stay put" option does not include HVAC, roofing, elevators, carpet, paint, tech needs, and other needs of the 40-year-old HQ building. The analysis also notes that parking is inadequate at the current location. Staying in place may still be the least expensive option, but the comparison should include all necessary costs. The stay put and "restack" the building (whatever that means) is the second least expensive in NPV (but is the 4th (of 7) most expensive in total cost.

Presentation (I thought there was a link here, but didn't see it) https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23854341-dcps-building-power-point-presentation

tufsu1

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^ are you sure? I mean the mid-rise hotel at the proposed Lot J was supposed to cost something like $120 million.

Did you get personally attacked by someone at the Jags?  Your 5 most recent posts are some sort of lamentation about present or past Jag developments.  Let it go, tufsu.

It was a simple question

thelakelander

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I went through the staff's slide presentation.  The elephant in the room is that, of all the options, staying put and renovating their building is far and away the cheapest option.

An insider told me the only reason for considering a move is for the political optics created by our dysfunctional school board.  When the school tax was passed, there was also a provision/promise that all of it would pay for schools, not administrative buildings, so where do we think this money to move will come from. 

Bottom line, everyone should be focused on improving our schools, not building a new and unnecessary new HQ's for the school board.  As many have noted, there is plenty of developable land along the river so there is no pressing need to add more.  Unlike the jail, the school board building is an office building that adds vibrancy to an area otherwise, to date, lacking same.  The development next door isn't exactly setting the world on fire so why add more land to that area.  What do we think will replace the school board building?  Another empty lot for the next few decades?

It's another boneheaded project by our elected officials IMHO. 

The presentation also says the "stay put" option does not include HVAC, roofing, elevators, carpet, paint, tech needs, and other needs of the 40-year-old HQ building. The analysis also notes that parking is inadequate at the current location. Staying in place may still be the least expensive option, but the comparison should include all necessary costs. The stay put and "restack" the building (whatever that means) is the second least expensive in NPV (but is the 4th (of 7) most expensive in total cost.

Presentation (I thought there was a link here, but didn't see it) https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23854341-dcps-building-power-point-presentation

I have more questions about all three options, after looking through that presentation. Right off the bat, the options need to be apples to apples. What I just saw was an apple, orange and grapefruit. Hard to make a logical decision based off what was presented.
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Steve

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I don't think it is fair to consider the first exit off of Hart Bridge "the burbs."

It definitely is when you consider whether those people could walk to lunch, stay late for dinner, etc.

Jax_Developer

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I'd rather it stay put too... for $200M lol.

I don't think it is fair to consider the first exit off of Hart Bridge "the burbs."

It definitely is when you consider whether those people could walk to lunch, stay late for dinner, etc.


That is because of code more than anything. With the density of FDOT classified arterials nearby, the zoning here should be much more dense than it is currently.

thelakelander

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FDOT arterials have little to do with local zoning. The city could (and is well overdue) overhaul its entire zoning code without FDOT's permission.

In general, I agree that it doesn't make sense to move if it cost them more money than staying put.
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Captain Zissou

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The analysis also notes that parking is inadequate at the current location.
They have almost 5 acres at their current site.  There are many solutions to provide adequate parking at the existing site that would cost less than relocating.  I'm in favor of them getting off the river, so I prefer the BCBS option.  However, some of these false narratives they're throwing around make me think they're trying to justify the JTA proposal.

jaxlongtimer

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I went through the staff's slide presentation.  The elephant in the room is that, of all the options, staying put and renovating their building is far and away the cheapest option.

An insider told me the only reason for considering a move is for the political optics created by our dysfunctional school board.  When the school tax was passed, there was also a provision/promise that all of it would pay for schools, not administrative buildings, so where do we think this money to move will come from. 

Bottom line, everyone should be focused on improving our schools, not building a new and unnecessary new HQ's for the school board.  As many have noted, there is plenty of developable land along the river so there is no pressing need to add more.  Unlike the jail, the school board building is an office building that adds vibrancy to an area otherwise, to date, lacking same.  The development next door isn't exactly setting the world on fire so why add more land to that area.  What do we think will replace the school board building?  Another empty lot for the next few decades?

It's another boneheaded project by our elected officials IMHO. 

The presentation also says the "stay put" option does not include HVAC, roofing, elevators, carpet, paint, tech needs, and other needs of the 40-year-old HQ building. The analysis also notes that parking is inadequate at the current location. Staying in place may still be the least expensive option, but the comparison should include all necessary costs. The stay put and "restack" the building (whatever that means) is the second least expensive in NPV (but is the 4th (of 7) most expensive in total cost.

Presentation (I thought there was a link here, but didn't see it) https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23854341-dcps-building-power-point-presentation

Charles, our comments don't really matter because the Board has set up a move as a foregone conclusion.  Just look at the resolution below:
Quote
Board passed a resolution dated September 7, 2021, to:
o Vacate 1701 Prudential and sell the property along with 4 other administrative properties
o Fund new facility in an amount between $12 - $60 million over 20 years, subject to availability of funds
o Release the Invitation to Negotiate

To show how lacking their interest is in staying put, they don't even discuss how much a potential renovation of the current building might cost to make a full comparison to other options.  Hard to evaluate when no one asks the appropriate questions.

To add, they don't calculate the cost of moving or value the disruption to the organization.  I would add that construction costs estimates are likely to turn out to be lower than actual based on typical construction estimates vs. reality, especially for civic projects.
 
The "challenges" to staying put look trumped up to me.  Citing the school board resolution as one of them is a self-fulfilling prophecy... that's clearly a self imposed and discretionary-by-the-Board challenge!  Just rescind the resolution and this "challenge" is gone. 

Same with the comment on parking.  "May constrain future growth"... that is true of any facility that can't be expanded beyond some imaginary number.  It certainly doesn't mean there is a parking problem now or in the foreseeable future.  I didn't see an effort made to compare current parking spaces to the options presented... again, showing a lack of interest in staying put.  Looking at Google Maps, it appears the current site has at least 500 spaces vs. 539 (shared with JTA!) and 625 for the options.  Not a whole lot of difference and certainly doesn't justify this comment.

Staying for another couple of decades will also allow the market to absorb most of the surrounding develop-able land greatly increasing the existing property's value whereas now it is more likely to be a fire sale given the surplus of land in the area.

As usual, it looks like a consultant got paid big bucks to support the end game dictated by their client and just back filled much of their report to get to the demanded finish line.

Quote
ADVANTAGES•Lowest cost option assuming a non renovation and/or non-restack scenario • No disruption of daily operations during move • Exclusive tenancy and branding • Location is central and known to employees and the public • Convenient parking • Owned debt free • Value increase over time • Preserves commitment from sales tax referendum that money would not be used for admin facilities / no capital to admin facilities (assuming no renovation/restack and status quo)

CHALLENGES | RISKS • Does not achieve Board Resolution directive to move off the river • Property in prime location remains untaxed and does not stimulate economic development • Inefficient space utilization • 40-year-old facility with capital improvement needs • Limited growth possibilities without significant capital investment • Less parking than other options and may constrain future growth • Outdated technology infrastructure • Forego estimated $10.6M in twenty-year tax revenue, if it materializes
« Last Edit: June 21, 2023, 10:15:54 PM by jaxlongtimer »

Jax_Developer

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FDOT arterials have little to do with local zoning. The city could (and is well overdue) overhaul its entire zoning code without FDOT's permission.

In general, I agree that it doesn't make sense to move if it cost them more money than staying put.

The point is the location should allow it to be denser than it is. They allow more density in Arlington than here, yet Midtown's location has better road access than the college park area by far. The Hart Bridge is one of the least utilized bridges I can think of too. The area was indeed once a suburb but now it is the only area across from a DT bridge not in a UPA.

thelakelander

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^That's totally up to COJ. I agree that the entire zoning code should be overhauled citywide. Until then, the Midtown area is still suburban, autocentric  and outside of downtown. Would love for redevelopment to happen there, but not at the expense of downtown.
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marcuscnelson

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Update on the search. The School Board doesn't sound particularly happy about either proposal.

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/news/2023/aug/08/duval-school-board-hesitant-on-bids-for-hq-relocation-from-downtown-riverfront/

To include my comments from the other post, I think it's fine for JTA to be part of getting their real estate developed, especially if it could then help fund the transit operations, but I don't think developing new office space is a good use of those resources. There's kind of too much office space as it stands right now. More residential, perhaps with a smaller office or retail element if demand called for it would make more sense here.

Especially if Florida Blue is suggesting they don't want to hold the property anyway, if there's a move at all it sounds like they could just lease their space and then sell the old office to Preston Hollow.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2023, 12:09:21 PM by marcuscnelson »
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Charles Hunter

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Glad to see the School Board asking the necessary questions.

Jax_Developer

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Thanks for posting it here Marcus. I would agree with you though... a ton of office space DT that is already built and available for use. Not sure why we need JTA spending time & resources on this.

Houseboat Mike

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Call me crazy, but is anyone looking at the idea of moving the School Board to the old JEA building that they just moved out of? The city already owns the land/building. So refresh that building, relocate the School Board to 21 Church St., and sell the current building. Or does that make too much sense?

jaxlongtimer

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Copying from the U2C thread to here:

It may be time to reconsider the decision to relocate from the existing property they own? Other then some not wanting them to be on riverfront land, how does moving help or hurt DCPS itself?

On the surface, it seems like staying where they are at may be the cheapest option (when compared to the two deals on the table). Heck, they have a huge piece of property with a large surface lot. Have they considered constructing a new building on the south side of the property and then partnering or selling off the riverfront side of the property for infill development? I hope they aren't moving for the sake of moving.

Maybe they should keep their land and partner with Preston Hollow on a redevelopment where DCPS becomes an anchor for the redevelopment?

Lake, this is the correct answer.  I recently engaged with a DCPS employee connected to this process that said staying at the current site, even with some renovations, was far cheaper than moving anywhere else.  The only reason to move is for the political optics of saying they moved off the river.  If the current HQ's was a few hundred feet back from the river, I doubt anyone would be talking about moving.  Like the AV's, this is another project that needs to die.