Again, rules mean little in Jax as self storage request moves forward

[BridgeTroll]

Doesn't Deegan live out at the beach?

[Tacachale]

Doesn't Deegan live out at the beach?

Yes.

[MusicMan]

Since there is a consensus of what should NOT go there, what do you folks think should go there?  Obviously residential is maxed out in that location, so please share your ideas.   The parcels were not "For Sale" as it was. A developer came in and cobbled together several parcels and made offers to the (multiple)  owners that were accepted, on the condition the storage unit building could be built. 

[jcjohnpaint]

I would be fine with a storage unit with retail at ground level. Seem them in other cities, but not here.

[Tacachale]

Since there is a consensus of what should NOT go there, what do you folks think should go there?  Obviously residential is maxed out in that location, so please share your ideas.   The parcels were not "For Sale" as it was. A developer came in and cobbled together several parcels and made offers to the (multiple)  owners that were accepted, on the condition the storage unit building could be built.

Residential with ground floor retail if that would fit. Otherwise, adaptive reuse for the existing retail building, or new retail with more density.

[Tacachale]

As usual, Nate hits it out of the park. Do any of the mayoral candidates give an inkling of having a vision (not having visions) for downtown and the city? Anyone? Bueller?

I've had the chance to meet and speak with Leanne Cumber and I would say she seems to be a bit more aware of the problems than anyone else currently running.  It's pretty sad to say (when looking back at previous candidates over the years) but probably her best qualification is simply the fact that she hasn't lived and worked in Jacksonville her entire life like a Donna Deegan or Daniel Davis. Most people here (the Jaxson) seemed to agree with her staunch disapproval of this self-storage insanity and logic behind her disapproval. I know politics has become more tribal than college football in the South, but I think she has opinions about DT and what needs to change that many here wouldn't necessarily disagree with.  At this point, we don't need a candidate who we agree with on 100% of the issues. Just give us someone who's not an entrenched slug. Think of it like the Jags... "We just want to be competitive at least!"

Cumber understands some of the problems we have with Downtown. The problem with her is she’s willing to oppose and even fight against the solutions for political expediency. She talks about infrastructure investment but opposed the gas tax and putting the school board tax on the ballot. She talks about not wasting money but she voted to spend $233 million on Lot J. She’s right about some things, like this storage fiasco, but very often she’s indistinguishable from the current status quo.

People who are new here don’t necessarily have any better insight than the old timers. Brian Hughes and Aaron Zahn are also Jax newbies.

I did want to ask her about Lot J but time didn't allow it. I agree with you in that I certainly have questions behind the vote once more of that garbage can of a "deal" came to light. There was a lot of discussion around the Laura Street Trio and why that is being held up in addition to other related projects from Steve Atkins that required far too much give from the city in her opinion. The last bit of time we had was around Tampa. I forget how there's a connection but I remember her discussing having a strong relationship with the former Mayor of Tampa, Buckhorn. Tampa has certainly turned its game around and she talked about some of the shakeups to City Hall which allowed Tampa to flourish and, naturally, how she would want to do the same here.

While some of the above may seem somewhat vague as I don't remember too many specific details, I do remember liking most of what I heard. Time will tell once campaigns get into the full swing. All I know is that I have extreme voters remorse over Curry. With our first kid finally on the way, there's more of a motivation to be involved in this community. I have conservative leanings but I'm sick of the R vs D war. If it comes down to Deegan vs Davis and Deegan's plan for the city is more rooted in true structural changes that would allow this place to flourish then sure, I'd vote for her.

Totally reasonable. For me, one of my biggest pet peeves is politicians who make a big show of saving small amounts of money (such as by opposing modest tax increases), and then turn around and blow far more money on wasteful things. Cumber likes to be seen as a “fiscal conservative” when it comes to opposing minor tax increases, even when it’s for important things like infrastructure. But then she has supported things like Lot J that would have given $230 million a single block of stadium parking. That’s just not fiscal responsibility.

That said, Cumber’s hardly the only current council member who does that kind of thing, and in instances like the self storage thing, she’s 100% right on. I hope she takes more stances like this in the future. She’s definitely smart and capable enough to do the job and make the tougher calls.

[jaxlongtimer]

^ My main concern when declared candidates take "popular" stances leading up to an election is how much is sincere and how much is "click bait" to grab favorable headlines.  And, then, if elected, they resort to a prior tact.

I look for consistency of efforts in the best interests of the community over a longer period of time.  Once a candidate declares, I discount there "Johnny-come-lately" positions.  Where did they stand on issues before that time?

[fieldafm]

Since there is a consensus of what should NOT go there, what do you folks think should go there?  Obviously residential is maxed out in that location, so please share your ideas.   The parcels were not "For Sale" as it was. A developer came in and cobbled together several parcels and made offers to the (multiple)  owners that were accepted, on the condition the storage unit building could be built.

In what world is 'residential maxed out' here?

Vestcor had this same assemblage under a contingent contract for a Lofts residential building, IMMEDIATELY preceding the self storage developer. Just because commercial real estate isn't on Loopnet, doesn't mean that its not for sale- or the owners aren't open to offers.

[Tacachale]

^Yeah, mixed use residential would be a great use at that spot.

[MusicMan]

The Vestcorp deal?   Why didn't they close the deal?

 I have a pretty good relationship with one of the principals at Catalyst Development Partners as well as one of their cash investors, who happens to own one of those Home Street parcels currently under contract. If they had seen the opportunity to make more $$ at an adjacent site to SoBa they would have jumped on it years ago.  They would have put that deal together and built it right after they finished SoBa, don't you think?
(Being 100% honest they did try, contingent on approval, but could not get one of the key owners to Sell).

And yes, there is a lot of residential within a half mile radius of that site, with hundreds more units already having broken ground.
The Peninsula, The Strand, SoBa, Broadstone River House, Southerly at South Bank, (1300 units or so...) plus the proposed residential at the Baptist Health site (Montana Ave...340 units, 1230 Hendricks....340 units, the almost 1000 new units along Philips and Atlantic, 2 developers (yes over 1000 yard radius) and then the massive development that cannot seem to ever get finished/started, The District (unknown number of additional residential units).   So almost 3000 residential units right there not counting all the single family residential and small multi-family that falls within that radius.  There's a lot of residential in there, so 'maxed out' is a reasonable assessment.

[thelakelander]

We have suburban densities in the Southbank, San Marco and generally all of DT still. We need a lot more than 3,000 units to max out from a residential perspective.

[MusicMan]

How many units currently in the CBD, NOT counting Brooklyn?  Not counting proposed projects, but occupied units?

The 3000 I mentioned are from a pretty small area of South Bank/San Marco.

Nothing would make me happier than an additional 3000 market rate units within a half mile/mile of Symphony Hall.  By 2025.

[fieldafm]

That's some slam dunk analysis. I don't know what two apartment buildings almost a mile and a half away from this site, and that are located next to an interstate highway ramp and a six-lane highway that soon becomes a limited-access expressway, has anything to do with the residential density of the Southbank.

There are 185 units at the Southerly, 147 units at SoBa, 243 units at Broadstone, 13 units in the Home Street Lofts (really 12 as someone owns 2 units that just haven't been joined together), 141 units in San Marco Place, 236 units at Peninusla, and 295 units in The Strand (in practice, 291 as four units are furnished daily rentals).  There is a little more than 80 acres of undeveloped land on the Southbank. Street traffic counts are less than 50% of actual roadway capacity throughout the Southbank.  There is less than 20,000 square feet of retail space in the Southbank, and none of that is clustered together.  The proposed self-storage unit would actually remove existing retail space.  By any stretch of the imagination, there is very little density for what is supposed to be an urban environment.   Being a former Southbank resident, and whose mother-in-law presently lives in the Southbank, at no point did I ever turn to my wife and openly complain: 'when is all this growth going to stop... its just too intense here and there's just too many people walking and driving around, and I have too many dining options to choose from'.

I don't know why Vestcorp didn't build anything, but Vestcor didn't build a Lofts at Southbank project, as they didn't get LIHTC financing approved at that site.  I actually answered that in another thread you started.

[MusicMan]

Here's some facts: in an area in desperate need of residential infill with street level retail, a developer of storage facilities actually has a contract in place.

Please explain that.

In this ultra premium location, where are all the residential developers?  Corner Lot? JWB?  The local guys?  The big money from Atlanta and Miami? I assume they are waiting for the storage guys to get turned down, then they will step in with plans?

You are the expert. Were they turned down? Could they not make it work financially?  Everyone blogging on this site says that's the perfect fit for this area, so why isn't it happening?  I'm asking so please answer.

My guess was there is enough residential in place and under construction to satisfy the current need. Obviously I am wrong. So you enlighten us.

[acme54321]

Who gives a shit?  It's not permitted by the overlay for a reason.  Do you really think a storage unit at one of the most prominent corners on the Southbank is a good idea?