Author Topic: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week  (Read 4145 times)

tufsu1

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2021, 09:34:24 AM »
At what point do they introduce the idea of moving the jail into this equation?

What would that cost? What friend of Lenny would get a sweetheart deal on that build out?

The number thrown around is $400 million - and its not included in the 5-year CIP

Ken_FSU

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2021, 10:15:32 AM »
^Yep, $400 million.

Which seems extremely optimistic.

~$250 million for a 3,000 bed jail.

~$100 million for a new Police Memorial building.

~$40 million for a 500-bed short-term holding facility.

~$2.5 million for Homeland Security and Vice facilities.

And around $7 million to purchase the land they're targeting in New Town (the Load King Warehouse block).

Preaching to the choir, but what's so silly about this plan is that, by the time you account for demolition and rising construction costs, we're easily looking at half a billion dollars as a best case scenario just to get the current jail site shovel ready because the DIA has unilaterally decided it's the new best site for a convention center.

Meanwhile, we've got a prime riverfront site (Ford on Bay) that we've already spent close to $100 million dollars getting shovel ready for a convention center between demolition and Coastline restoration and the Hyatt eagerly on board to partner with a developer on a CC at the site. We could have shovels in the ground next year on a market-appropriate convention center at the Ford on Bay site if we wanted to, but instead, we're adding a billion dollars to the price tag and 5-10 years to the timeline because a couple of people decided in the shadows that the jail site makes the most sense for a CC.

thelakelander

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2021, 10:20:05 AM »
^Yep, $400 million.

Which seems extremely optimistic.

~$250 million for a 3,000 bed jail.

~$100 million for a new Police Memorial building.

~$40 million for a 500-bed short-term holding facility.

~$2.5 million for Homeland Security and Vice facilities.

And around $7 million to purchase the land they're targeting in New Town (the Load King Warehouse block).


So the jail isn't good enough to stay in its current location but it's good enough to move into a historically Black community in 32209, right on the other side of I-95? Talk about color of law and environmental justice!!!! This is a move straight out of 1950! We should know better by now.
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Captain Zissou

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2021, 10:21:40 AM »
^ Additionally, with all of the improvements coming to the railyard district and the money poured into the emerald trail, do we even want to use the Loadking site for a jail?  In the 10-15 years that it takes to get the new facility funded and built that area could look completely different and may not be suitable to put Jacksonville's finest right in the middle.  I don't hate the idea of putting the CC on the current jail site, but I think we need to rethink where we will put the future facility.

thelakelander

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2021, 10:41:33 AM »
I think we need to rethink the need to move the jail. Last time I checked, the Broward County jail on the New River isn't killing vibrancy and growth in Downtown Fort Lauderdale. The jail is the last of downtown's issues. If we got $400 million to spend in downtown, the jail doesn't even crack the top 100 list in needs.
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jcjohnpaint

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2021, 01:06:08 PM »
I feel that there are behind-the-scenes talks going on assuming the jail will move. I am basing this on some of Lori Boyer's past comments.
This is troubling because it is influencing all of the decisions about the Ford on Bay site. I feel the most logical area would be this parcel. If you removed the jail complex, you would still have about the same size area, but have the Hyatt included, so the hotel would already exist.

jaxjaguar

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2021, 01:35:21 PM »
Because the jail will almost certainly move under the cover of night, is there any precedence for turning a former jail of that size into housing/hotel/office? I would imagine the windows could be made larger and interior walls could be demolished. Would certainly be more environmentally friendly than demolishing it.

Captain Zissou

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #37 on: October 14, 2021, 02:02:07 PM »
I feel that there are behind-the-scenes talks going on assuming the jail will move. I am basing this on some of Lori Boyer's past comments.

I heard her say they don't want to give up the waterfront property for the convention center, which is why across Bay St at the jail is preferable.  If there was development planned or a competent RFP process for the FoB, I would agree.  COJ and DIA are the kings of putting the cart before the horse.

tufsu1

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #38 on: October 14, 2021, 03:15:21 PM »
Because the jail will almost certainly move under the cover of night

Order the Mayflower moving trucks

MusicMan

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2021, 10:17:57 AM »
Move the jail facilities into City Hall, birds of a feather .....

heights unknown

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #40 on: October 16, 2021, 05:34:31 PM »
Because the jail will almost certainly move under the cover of night, is there any precedence for turning a former jail of that size into housing/hotel/office? I would imagine the windows could be made larger and interior walls could be demolished. Would certainly be more environmentally friendly than demolishing it.
Yeah, but that JAIL SMELL is very hard to get out and/or shake. Good luck. It's in the walls forever.
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Ken_FSU

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2021, 01:25:30 PM »
Beyond that, Lot J is absolutely going to be coming back in some form. Sooner than most people think.

Lamping planting those seeds:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-president-on-development-were-in-a-very-good-place

The ask will come next year.

Doesn't make sense to open a Four Seasons with no entertainment component nearby, nor is it good for the hotel to be overlooking a construction zone for years.

I think the Jags have learned a lot from the failure the first time around.

Hopefully Cordish has too.

acme54321

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2021, 03:11:27 PM »
Beyond that, Lot J is absolutely going to be coming back in some form. Sooner than most people think.

Lamping planting those seeds:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-president-on-development-were-in-a-very-good-place

The ask will come next year.

Doesn't make sense to open a Four Seasons with no entertainment component nearby, nor is it good for the hotel to be overlooking a construction zone for years.

I think the Jags have learned a lot from the failure the first time around.

Hopefully Cordish has too.

Piecemeal it so no one sees their massive taxpayer ask in one spot?

landfall

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #43 on: October 21, 2021, 03:34:14 PM »
Beyond that, Lot J is absolutely going to be coming back in some form. Sooner than most people think.

Lamping planting those seeds:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-president-on-development-were-in-a-very-good-place

The ask will come next year.

Doesn't make sense to open a Four Seasons with no entertainment component nearby, nor is it good for the hotel to be overlooking a construction zone for years.

I think the Jags have learned a lot from the failure the first time around.

Hopefully Cordish has too.
Packaged up with a stadium renovation too I wonder? They're definitely going to ask for a roof over the stands at the very least like in Miami.

Ken_FSU

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Re: Four Seasons Hotel plan headed to DDRB this week
« Reply #44 on: October 21, 2021, 03:39:33 PM »
Beyond that, Lot J is absolutely going to be coming back in some form. Sooner than most people think.

Lamping planting those seeds:

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/jaguars-president-on-development-were-in-a-very-good-place

The ask will come next year.

Doesn't make sense to open a Four Seasons with no entertainment component nearby, nor is it good for the hotel to be overlooking a construction zone for years.

I think the Jags have learned a lot from the failure the first time around.

Hopefully Cordish has too.

Piecemeal it so no one sees their massive taxpayer ask in one spot?

Ding ding ding.

The clock's ticking too.

Tentative timeline for stadium renovation negotiations start is late 2023/early 2024.

They're going to need to squeeze in the Lot J ask well before that much larger ask.

Quote
Packaged up with a stadium renovation too I wonder? They're definitely going to ask for a roof over the stands at the very least like in Miami.

Separate.

Buth both are coming.