Author Topic: Rust Belt Special: Learning from Downtown Cleveland  (Read 2500 times)

Metro Jacksonville

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Rust Belt Special: Learning from Downtown Cleveland
« on: November 28, 2006, 12:00:00 AM »
Rust Belt Special: Learning from Downtown Cleveland



Tower City Center (formerly known as Cleveland Union Terminal) is a large mixed-use facility located on Public Square in Downtown Cleveland. The facility is comprised of a number of interconnected office buildings including the landmark Terminal Tower, a shopping mall, two hotels, and the main hub of Cleveland's three rapid transit (light rail) lines.

Full Article
http://www.metrojacksonville.com/content/view/261

JJ

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Never, never, never
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2006, 09:34:08 AM »
Downtown Jacksonville will never be anything close to what Cleveland is. Cleveland has great restaurants, a cultural center and a progressive thinking local government. We can all hope and wish that we can someday have something similar in Jacksonville, but we won't. We can't.

RG

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Yes We Can
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2006, 12:19:21 PM »
Let's not be negative now, JJ.  Downtown Jax has, in many ways, more potential than downtown Cleveland in that the setting is beautiful and the weather is far better.  We are moving in this direction downtown although Cleveland is 2 1/2 times larger than Jacksonville.  Give us some time and dont lose faith.

...

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(No subject)
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2006, 04:11:33 PM »
I agree w/ RG. Though I've noticed something in these "learning from" series, all of these other cities have embraced the historic structures. They have all of these great buildings w/ new buildings that have sprung up around them. Unfortunately, it appears Jacksonville is too far gone. We've torn down all of the old buildings and not even built up since. We have a ton of surface parking lots and empty commercial properties. Too much more and we can move all of the car dealerships on Cassat & in Green Cove and put them downtown.

Driven1

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great job!
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2006, 04:14:44 PM »
Ennis,
Good job with this article.  I enjoyed it.

JJ

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I just don't think it is realistic.
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2006, 05:30:41 PM »
I have been to cities with great downtowns, including Cleveland. I just do not think it is realistic to think anything close to what Cleveland has is ever going to happen here. I look at projects like the T-U Center and the Adam's Mark hotel. The city has shown little interest in helping this city add some density and character. The parking situation, the sign ordinance, no city directories. The list goes on and on and on. Why do our city officials take these trips to other cities? To visit suburban shopping mall? We have a mayor who has zero interest in helping spur any kind of downtown development. I would love for anything close to what Cleveland has to happen in Jacksonville, but it just won't ever happen. Not in my lifetime.

charles

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Cleveland?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2006, 04:38:28 PM »
i moved here from the Big Apple - and it is the southern charm that attracted me. But over the last two years i have become way to involved in local politics. there is something wrong in jax and that is the mentality of the people, half the people want to be progressive and the other half wants to live in the past.

everyone seems to bemaon the yankees that have flocked here but if somehow we can all find some common ground this could be a phemononal place to live - some of that yankee enterprise mixed with southern civility would be awesome.

My vision would be a thriving metropolis in the downtown area with shopping, restaurants, multiple theatre's (how about a Duane Reade for havens sake) it would be nice to know where you could go to get a pair of shoe laces or some eyedrops without having to go to switchboard on line. A thriving downtown with city people living in condos and a suburban population would be cool (the suburban part is well taken care of)

the other thing I would wish for is an end to localism, people from mandarin look down on people from arlington, the beaches looks down on the westside, southsiders can't understand why you would live in orange park etc etc. What is up with that - where did it come from?


last but not least - lets not set our sights on being like CLEVELAND (no offense OHIOers) we could be so much more.


Jason

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JJ, are you running for office?
« Reply #7 on: December 04, 2006, 09:15:15 AM »
Remarks like that are the reson why Jacksonville is in the state it is.  Talk about an inferiority complex...

JJ

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Not me. It's them.
« Reply #8 on: December 04, 2006, 12:02:54 PM »
Remarks like mine are the reason? That is laughable. Jacksonville is in the state it is in because of the small thinkers. People who get excited about things like distribution centers, Golden Corral and Wal-Mart. We have people in power who act like Jacksonville is Macon, Georgia instead of one of the 50 biggest metro areas in the country.

Ernest Street

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Re: Rust Belt Special: Learning from Downtown Cleveland
« Reply #9 on: September 13, 2008, 12:08:09 PM »
I must defend Jason..I also notice local Patterns of Apathy. Look how Jaxons are trained by Home Depot and Lowes that their way and inventory (or lack of..) is the only way to shop for hardware. If they don't have it people abandon their project instead of doing some research online to find a smaller local industrial supplier with Counter sales.They weren't ALL swallowed up and are tucked in all around our neighborhoods.The Folks at the counter are usually friendly and don't have to be chased down the orange isles.Having 4 different Phone books doesn't help matters either.A small business can't buy space in all four, and few do.Some see Lack of any common sense happening here. ???
« Last Edit: September 13, 2008, 12:13:11 PM by Ernest Street »

rjp2008

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Re: Rust Belt Special: Learning from Downtown Cleveland
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2008, 01:51:20 PM »
Learning from Cleveland?!?! This is FLORIDA - a state like NO OTHER! :)
Jax doesn't have to be like a Midwest city - if it would try more to be like a Florida city, every 'ting would be all right.

(Just bustin chops) ;)

Seriously though, we just don't take advantage enough of the wintering tourism market that comes with being one of the Warmest East Coast Cities on the Atlantic Ocean.


brainstormer

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Re: Rust Belt Special: Learning from Downtown Cleveland
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2008, 03:31:51 PM »
So here is something to think about.  This article and it's posts are dated November 2006.  After almost 2 years, we are still having the same conversations and Jacksonville is faced with the same corrupt, do nothing leadership.  Nothing has changed.  No progress has really been made.  Makes me wonder if maybe things will never change.  How can a city full of thousands of people coming and going never make real progress?  How long should someone like me wait before getting out?  There are so many people starved for leadership and a vision.

Ocklawaha

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Re: Rust Belt Special: Learning from Downtown Cleveland
« Reply #12 on: September 13, 2008, 04:28:41 PM »
Quote
Downtown Jacksonville will never be anything close to what Cleveland is. Cleveland has great restaurants, a cultural center and a progressive thinking local government. We can all hope and wish that we can someday have something similar in Jacksonville, but we won't. We can't.


I awaken each day and in praise and thanksgiving, shouting, by Grabthar's Hammer we will NEVER be like Cleveland. In fact, if General Lee ever tires of chasing the Yankee hordes around Virginia, I want to be burgermeister of Cleveland. Times are going to be tough for those grit eating, shoe licking, snot dripping, scab picking, dirty, smelly, rotten freaks... all of them - pencil-neck geeks.

Seriously, I don't think the intent of the "Learning From" series implys that Cleveland, Buffalo or any other city is some humanatopia. Even in North Korea or BFE there are probably things we could learn from. Far from making one city superior to another, the implication is one of intelligence. Could we learn from Medellin, Colombia? Certainly! Does that make Medellin, better then Jacksonville? No, it just means that Medellin is one of millions of choices. Meanwhile Jacksonville is the City of proverb in the classic song "White Bird", Jacksonville is indeed the bird.

http://www.last.fm/music/It%27s+a+Beautiful+Day/_/White+Bird?autostart

White bird,
in a golden cage,
on a winter's day,
in the rain.

White bird,
in a golden cage,
alone.

The leaves blow,
Across the long black road.
To the darkened skies,
in its rage

But the white bird just sits in her cage,
alone.

White bird must fly
Or she will die

White bird,
dreams of the aspen trees,
with their dying leaves,
turning gold.

But the white bird just sits in her cage,
growing old.

White bird must fly or she will die.
White bird must fly or she will die.

The sunsets come, the sunsets go.
The clouds pile high,the air moves slow.
And the young bird's eyes do always know.

She must fly,
She must fly,
She must fly.

White bird,
In a golden cage,
On a winter's day, in the rain.

White bird,
In a golden cage alone.

White bird must fly or she will die.
White bird must fly or she will die.
White bird must fly or she will die.


OCKLAWAHA