Author Topic: COVID Again Rampant in Jax  (Read 29455 times)

Snaketoz

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Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #210 on: August 01, 2021, 09:29:56 PM »
BT is forever the critic.  He trolls the threads looking for something to snipe.  It goes on and on.  If you say white, he says why or black.  You really have a problem.  I think it's called Dunning-Kruger effect.

Adam White

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Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #211 on: August 02, 2021, 05:30:00 AM »
No one... not one of you... want to go back to the full on quarantine again.   Get vaccinated... wear a mask and social distance...  You really need Ron DeSantis to tell you that?  Gimme a break. We all know what to do... the ones who dont believe it or refuse to comply will not regardless of a toothless mandate... even during the mandatory masking people who refused simply did their business regardless... you gonna arrest people??  Give me mandates with real consequences and I'm onboard... otherwise... utterly meaningless.

Okay, so I am not in FL, but I would be happy with a full lockdown where I live.

Anyway, the problem with your position, BT, is that getting vaccinated, wearing a mask and social distancing makes very little difference if the majority aren't doing it. It's like climate change - you can do your part by driving less, but it's not going to make a difference without mass action (and the major polluters changing their behaviours). And such action usually requires government intervention.

I'm not saying there should or shouldn't be mandatory vaccinations or masks or whatever. I think it's a complicated issue and I honestly am not completely certain of my position on it. But I think your approach is basically inaction.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2021, 05:51:36 AM by Adam White »
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BridgeTroll

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Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #212 on: August 02, 2021, 06:21:31 AM »
BT is forever the critic.  He trolls the threads looking for something to snipe.  It goes on and on.  If you say white, he says why or black.  You really have a problem.  I think it's called Dunning-Kruger effect.
Well... I  am your critic... and I  often disagree with many of the left of center posters...
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BridgeTroll

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Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #213 on: August 02, 2021, 06:34:49 AM »
No one... not one of you... want to go back to the full on quarantine again.   Get vaccinated... wear a mask and social distance...  You really need Ron DeSantis to tell you that?  Gimme a break. We all know what to do... the ones who dont believe it or refuse to comply will not regardless of a toothless mandate... even during the mandatory masking people who refused simply did their business regardless... you gonna arrest people??  Give me mandates with real consequences and I'm onboard... otherwise... utterly meaningless.

Okay, so I am not in FL, but I would be happy with a full lockdown where I live.

Anyway, the problem with your position, BT, is that getting vaccinated, wearing a mask and social distancing makes very little difference if the majority aren't doing it. It's like climate change - you can do your part by driving less, but it's not going to make a difference without mass action (and the major polluters changing their behaviours). And such action usually requires government intervention.

I'm not saying there should or shouldn't be mandatory vaccinations or masks or whatever. I think it's a complicated issue and I honestly am not completely certain of my position on it. But I think your approach is basically inaction.
I think you misunderstand my position... I  favor and am vaccinated,  masked and distanced. My wife and I  have reluctantly re imposed our self quarantine. I would comply with mandates... I  just don't think they will happen.  Name a country outside of red China that forces vaccination. We saw the economic and social effects of full lockdown and many still have not recovered.  You ALL witnessed mask mandates at super markets, stores, bars, ignored and unforced or worse... attempts to enforce results in violence.

Blaming the governor for this current outbreak is simply frustration with your fellow citizens directed at an easy target...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

vicupstate

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Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #214 on: August 02, 2021, 07:14:04 AM »

Quote
Blaming the governor for this current outbreak is simply frustration with your fellow citizens directed at an easy target...

Gimme a break, man. There a many, many things he could have done differently that would have helped the situation. He is pandering to the far right base at the cost of lives and the economy. Why don't you just admit the obvious, that he is a big part of the problem? 


FL sets a new record for Covid hospitalizations, higher now than any time since the pandemic began.

https://apnews.com/article/business-health-florida-coronavirus-pandemic-7ca97f0d685ab25559cf9b51cfc077eb
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Adam White

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Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #215 on: August 02, 2021, 07:18:34 AM »
No one... not one of you... want to go back to the full on quarantine again.   Get vaccinated... wear a mask and social distance...  You really need Ron DeSantis to tell you that?  Gimme a break. We all know what to do... the ones who dont believe it or refuse to comply will not regardless of a toothless mandate... even during the mandatory masking people who refused simply did their business regardless... you gonna arrest people??  Give me mandates with real consequences and I'm onboard... otherwise... utterly meaningless.

Okay, so I am not in FL, but I would be happy with a full lockdown where I live.

Anyway, the problem with your position, BT, is that getting vaccinated, wearing a mask and social distancing makes very little difference if the majority aren't doing it. It's like climate change - you can do your part by driving less, but it's not going to make a difference without mass action (and the major polluters changing their behaviours). And such action usually requires government intervention.

I'm not saying there should or shouldn't be mandatory vaccinations or masks or whatever. I think it's a complicated issue and I honestly am not completely certain of my position on it. But I think your approach is basically inaction.
I think you misunderstand my position... I  favor and am vaccinated,  masked and distanced. My wife and I  have reluctantly re imposed our self quarantine. I would comply with mandates... I  just don't think they will happen.  Name a country outside of red China that forces vaccination. We saw the economic and social effects of full lockdown and many still have not recovered.  You ALL witnessed mask mandates at super markets, stores, bars, ignored and unforced or worse... attempts to enforce results in violence.

Blaming the governor for this current outbreak is simply frustration with your fellow citizens directed at an easy target...

If I read the complaints correctly, it seems people are upset that the Governor isn't mandating masks or setting restrictions. And I know it was a while ago, but I seem to recall the Governor moving to open businesses up and return to business as usual in the midst of one of the waves of the pandemic.

I personally don't think you can mandate vaccines and I am more than a bit uncomfortable with that idea. I do think the government has to show leadership and come up with a plan to address the issue with people not getting vaccinated (not sure what FL has done in this respect). This can be anything from advertising/PR campaigns to incentives to 'vaccination passports', etc (or some combination of those).

What FL is going to struggle with is the idea of closing non-essential businesses down, as the Federal government has done very little to help business and individuals. I wouldn't want people to not be able to eat, etc because their job is closed and they have no source of income.

I do think that mask mandates for all businesses as well as strict rules around the operation of businesses should be in place - things like limiting the numbers into grocery stores, enforcing outdoor dining, etc.

Again, not sure if FL has done these sorts of things - but it seems to me that coming up with a comprehensive plan and executing it is better than inaction. This is a public health emergency and steps must be taken. And it really needn't be political.

My issue with your comments were not that I thought you were opposed to vaccines, etc but rather that you were taking the 'personal responsibility' angle. Which is great in theory, but not really enough in reality. We can't expect anyone other than ourselves to take personal responsibility - but when people don't do the responsible things, there are negative externalities. It's easy to say, "If you don't get vaccinated, it's your problem if you end up dying". The problem with that is that people spreading this virus - whether it is unvaccinated people or vaccinated people who think they can go about business as usual - are helping to keep the virus thriving and mutating. And we all suffer the consequences of that.

TL;DR - I didn't get the impression that you were opposed to that stuff. I just think expecting people to do the right thing on their own is wishful thinking.
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Snaketoz

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Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #216 on: August 02, 2021, 07:22:35 AM »
I don't blame the governor for the outbreak.  I blame him for prolonging it.  He is stirring-up favor from his base and worsening an already terrible situation, just to be a right wing hero.  If you want help with a health related problem, listen to the CDC, Surgeon General, WHO, NIH, overwhelming majority of medical doctors.  DeSantis gets his cues from Tucker Carlson and DJT.

BridgeTroll

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Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #217 on: August 02, 2021, 07:56:47 AM »

Quote
Blaming the governor for this current outbreak is simply frustration with your fellow citizens directed at an easy target...

Gimme a break, man. There a many, many things he could have done differently that would have helped the situation. He is pandering to the far right base at the cost of lives and the economy. Why don't you just admit the obvious, that he is a big part of the problem? 


FL sets a new record for Covid hospitalizations, higher now than any time since the pandemic began.

https://apnews.com/article/business-health-florida-coronavirus-pandemic-7ca97f0d685ab25559cf9b51cfc077eb

Well I'm glad that is your only objection...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

vicupstate

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Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #218 on: August 02, 2021, 08:56:50 AM »
 “In a dramatic shift from last month, more Americans now say the coronavirus situation in the U.S. is getting worse (45%) rather than better (40%). In June, a record 89% said the situation was getting better, while only 3% said it was getting worse.”

https://news.gallup.com/poll/353003/americans-optimism-covid-dashed-cases-surge.aspx

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MusicMan

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Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #219 on: August 02, 2021, 06:36:00 PM »
As DJT might say, "If you stop asking people it will get better."

bl8jaxnative

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Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #220 on: August 03, 2021, 08:11:14 AM »

For a couple generations, without good evidence, the CDC claimed salt was dangerous.

They may have smart people.  But as an org, they have made simple mistakes that a good, science - not political - org wouldn't make.

Adam White

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Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #221 on: August 03, 2021, 08:48:00 AM »

For a couple generations, without good evidence, the CDC claimed salt was dangerous.

They may have smart people.  But as an org, they have made simple mistakes that a good, science - not political - org wouldn't make.

Salt is dangerous - at least in excess - as it is linked to a variety of health problems.

And a "not political org" - the American Heart Association - agrees:

https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-smart/sodium/sodium-and-salt
« Last Edit: August 03, 2021, 09:11:03 AM by Adam White »
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Tacachale

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Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #222 on: August 03, 2021, 09:05:03 AM »

For a couple generations, without good evidence, the CDC claimed salt was dangerous.

They may have smart people.  But as an org, they have made simple mistakes that a good, science - not political - org wouldn't make.

I'm sure the Facebook School of Medicine has a much better track record.
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vicupstate

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Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #223 on: August 03, 2021, 09:24:56 AM »
Amid recent surging coronavirus cases in Florida, a top Republican National Committee official in the state has spread anti-vaccine rhetoric and misinformation, comparing the Biden administration’s vaccine efforts to Nazi-era “brown shirts,” and twice calling the vaccines “the mark of the beast,” comparable to a “false god.”

A review by CNN’s KFile found that Peter Feaman, a lawyer and RNC committeeman from Florida made the comments on his blog the “The Backhoe Chronicles,” which he publishes regularly in a private group on MeWe. The social media platform bills itself as the “anti-Facebook” app.


https://www.cnn.com/2021/08/02/politics/kfile-rnc-peter-feaman-covid-19-vaccine/index.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+rss%2Fcnn_allpolitics+%28RSS%3A+CNN+-+Politics%29
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jaxlongtimer

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Re: COVID Again Rampant in Jax
« Reply #224 on: August 03, 2021, 12:25:35 PM »
Florida #1 in COVID cases and Jacksonville #1 in Florida.  The national publicity the City and State are getting over this is not good.  If DeSantis thinks he is helping the State's economy by ignoring mask and vaccine mandates he is wrong.  I know of several people who have cancelled flights to here that were booked into the fall over what they are seeing.  I am sure they are not alone.

DeSantis has now successfully earned his desired reputation as a Trump clone.  In so doing, he is, as one mayor described it, leading his minions "over a cliff."  It reminds me of Jim Jones giving Kool-Aid to his flock.  Like Jones, Trump and DeSantis are asking their "cult" members to commit, effectively, suicidal behaviors, and, ironically, likewise, they are diminishing their own flocks.

Quote
"Jacksonville right now is really the epicenter of the pandemic here across Florida," Marc Lotter, Senior Vice President of Marketing, Communications and Education for the Florida Hospital Association, said. "There's no area harder hit than Jacksonville."

....According to Lotter, some hospitals in Jacksonville are double their previous peak right now.....

....Lotter also talked about Florida breaking the record for the most cases of COVID in a single day this past weekend.

“When we had the previous peak, it took us 60 days to go from 2,000 cases statewide to more than 10,000," Lotter explained. "We've gone from 2,000 cases at the beginning of July, to now well over 10,000 cases here at the beginning of August. So, what happened in two months last year has happened in less than one month this year."....

....FCN also asked the city how it plans to address the surge at hospitals. The mayor's office responded with the following statement:

"Mayor Curry and his administration continue to work with hospital leaders as we navigate through this surge. According to these medical facilities, nearly 98% of those being treated for COVID-19 in our area hospitals did not receive the vaccine. The COVID-19 vaccine continues to be our greatest tool in battling this virus. If you are eligible to receive this vaccine, we strongly encourage you to do so.”....

https://www.firstcoastnews.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/florida-hospital-association-official-calls-jacksonville-epicenter-of-pandemic-in-florida/77-39d9d0c6-4a41-41cf-9be0-a32de4927801
« Last Edit: August 03, 2021, 02:22:05 PM by jaxlongtimer »