Author Topic: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan  (Read 26916 times)

MusicMan

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #150 on: September 17, 2021, 11:37:33 AM »
Can someone tell me what iconic sculpture put Greenville SC on the map, and draws so many people to it?

Answer: there isn't one. I'd rather see the DIA / COJ spend the $11 to $15 million dollars on renovating and restoring what's left of our historic building stock, or supporting that effort. That will do more in the long term to revitalize downtown then the 'LERP/xaJ' sculpture ever will.

Ken_FSU

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #151 on: September 17, 2021, 01:12:40 PM »
I'd rather see the DIA / COJ spend the $11 to $15 million dollars on renovating and restoring what's left of our historic building stock, or supporting that effort. That will do more in the long term to revitalize downtown then the 'LERP/xaJ' sculpture ever will.

It doesn't need to be an either/or, though.

There's no reason we can't do both.

An iconic, Instagrammable art installation at the former Landing will do more to draw out-of-town visitors to the Laura Street corridor from the sports complex, for example, than restoring an old building.

And restoring historic building stock into active uses will give said visitors somewhere to spend money when they arrive.

Both things work together.

But, ultimately comes down to the old adage that you need to spend money to make money.

If the city cheaps out on the Landing - including the art installation - they shouldn't be surprised if the resulting impact is muted.

acme54321

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #152 on: September 17, 2021, 02:19:30 PM »
they shouldn't be surprised if the resulting impact is muted.

They would be shocked.  We all know it.

thelakelander

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #153 on: September 17, 2021, 03:58:19 PM »
I'd rather see the DIA / COJ spend the $11 to $15 million dollars on renovating and restoring what's left of our historic building stock, or supporting that effort. That will do more in the long term to revitalize downtown then the 'LERP/xaJ' sculpture ever will.

It doesn't need to be an either/or, though.

There's no reason we can't do both.

If imagine if we just committed to spending $200 to $250 million on downtown now, like we were going to do for Lot J? You could fund this park, art piece and all, and a lot more.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

fsu813

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #154 on: September 17, 2021, 04:43:39 PM »
Can someone tell me what iconic sculpture put Greenville SC on the map, and draws so many people to it?


The Eiffel Tower made Paris. It was all cow pastures prior to.

New York City was literally built around the ankles of the Statue of Liberty.

The workers who transformed San Fran from a fishing village into a metropolis sailed under the Golden Gate Bridge to get there.

Lesson 1 in developing great cities: build your icon, they will come.

Perhaps Greenville hasn't learned that lesson yet, but Jax is about to hold a tutorial.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 04:46:31 PM by fsu813 »

jaxoNOLE

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #155 on: September 17, 2021, 05:03:53 PM »
they shouldn't be surprised if the resulting impact is muted.

They would be shocked.  We all know it.

Yup. Underfund the project upfront to hedge your bets, then bemoan its inevitable failure and use it as justification to shortchange the next project. Wash, rinse, repeat, so you have plenty of cash to tear down the next historical building in a hurry.

acme54321

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #156 on: September 17, 2021, 05:27:47 PM »
Can someone tell me what iconic sculpture put Greenville SC on the map, and draws so many people to it?


The Eiffel Tower made Paris. It was all cow pastures prior to.

New York City was literally built around the ankles of the Statue of Liberty.

The workers who transformed San Fran from a fishing village into a metropolis sailed under the Golden Gate Bridge to get there.

Lesson 1 in developing great cities: build your icon, they will come.

Perhaps Greenville hasn't learned that lesson yet, but Jax is about to hold a tutorial.

I don't know if Greenville is he best example.  That curved pedestrian bridge is pretty much an iconic structure, along with the surrounding park, that played a pretty big role in the areas revivalization.

fsu813

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #157 on: September 17, 2021, 05:30:24 PM »
Can someone tell me what iconic sculpture put Greenville SC on the map, and draws so many people to it?


The Eiffel Tower made Paris. It was all cow pastures prior to.

New York City was literally built around the ankles of the Statue of Liberty.

The workers who transformed San Fran from a fishing village into a metropolis sailed under the Golden Gate Bridge to get there.

Lesson 1 in developing great cities: build your icon, they will come.

Perhaps Greenville hasn't learned that lesson yet, but Jax is about to hold a tutorial.

I don't know if Greenville is he best example.  That curved pedestrian bridge is pretty much an iconic structure, along with the surrounding park, that played a pretty big role in the areas revivalization.

Never heard of her.

jaxlongtimer

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #158 on: September 17, 2021, 06:32:51 PM »
^ Actually, Greenville considers the Liberty Bridge their icon.  It even has its own web page that declares it's the only type of its kind in the U.S.  It might not rival the Statue of Liberty, Golden Gate Bridge or Eiffel Tower, but then Greenville doesn't rival the cities those are in either.  Having visited Greenville, I can tell you most all their tourists make a point of crossing this bridge.

At a $4.5 million cost, circa 2003, it would likely be in the range of $10 million today.  Given Jacksonville's size relative to Greenville, spending $15 to $20+ million on an icon would not seem unreasonable.

Quote
The vision for a dramatic public garden was finally realized when the Camperdown Bridge was removed in 2002. Using funds generated through a local hospitality tax, and building on the master plan designed in 1999 by landscape architect Andrea Mains, Falls Park was developed to include 20 acres of gardens showcasing Reedy River Falls. In August 2002, Mayor Knox White announced "In Full Bloom in 2003," a $13 million initiative to transform the park into a public garden and oasis. Included in the project was construction of a 355-foot-long, 12-foot-wide, curved suspension bridge that was designed by world-renowned architect Miguel Rosales to provide dramatic views of the upper falls and the gardens below. Additional designs called for a new park building with two levels of plazas, a private restaurant, public restrooms and the garden's maintenance facility to be located on the South Main Street end of the bridge.

https://www.greenvillesc.gov/178/History


Quote
Greenville's unique Liberty Bridge honors Liberty Corporation founder W. Frank Hipp and his children, Francis M. Hipp, Herman N. Hipp, B. Calhoun Hipp, and Dorothy Hipp Gunter for their commitment and contribution to the Greenville community.

The $4.5 million structure was funded by the City of Greenville's Hospitality Tax, which must be spent on tourism-related facilities.

The Liberty Bridge was constructed over a period of 12 months by Taylor and Murphy Construction Co. of Asheville, N.C., designed by bridge architect Miquel Rosales of Boston, and engineered by Schlaich Bergermann.

Chris Britton, structural division manager for Taylor and Murphy, describes the bridge as "an ultra lightweight bridge, which almost looks like it's floating on air."

At 345 feet long, 12 feet wide and 8 inches thick, the concrete reinforced deck is supported by a single suspension cable. The deck's distinctive curve has a radius of 214 feet and it is cantilevered toward the waterfall from supporting cables on the outside. The bridge deck also inclines 12 feet or 3% from east to west over the river...

....While bridges with similar structural concepts have been built in Europe, this bridge is unique in its geometry and there is nothing like it in the United States.

Below the bridge the 28 foot Reedy River Falls is the site where Greenville's first European settler, Richard Pearis, established his trading post in 1768. Later he built grist and saw mills at this same location which was the hub of early industry in Greenville until the 1920s.

https://www.greenvillesc.gov/175/Liberty-Bridge





Speaking of iconic pedestrian suspension bridges, here is another located on Jeju Island, South Korea:




« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 06:46:12 PM by jaxlongtimer »

MusicMan

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #159 on: September 17, 2021, 06:57:01 PM »
You know, I've walked on that bridge and taken pictures of my kids all over that  bridge and park. So I see what you are saying. I guess my only observation is that it's so seamlessly woven into the natural elevation and topography of the spot it seems as if it's always been there.
Can we pull off something like that? 

jaxoNOLE

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #160 on: September 17, 2021, 08:39:53 PM »
You know, I've walked on that bridge and taken pictures of my kids all over that  bridge and park. So I see what you are saying. I guess my only observation is that it's so seamlessly woven into the natural elevation and topography of the spot it seems as if it's always been there.
Can we pull off something like that?

The Jax is structured to be interactive--water features, dynamic lighting, and walkable under/through/and around. I understand you're not a fan--but I think the intent is there to have some of those kind of elements to activate the art. If there's a proposal to change the design and achieve the same goals, I wouldn't complain.

thelakelander

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #161 on: September 17, 2021, 09:57:34 PM »
The Landing was iconic but we tore it down. Anyone know of another city that had an orange roof colored horseshoe shaped structure in the heart of its skyline? One could argue that the Main Street Bridge is also iconic......just as much as that pedestrian bridge in Greensville. However, we have not designed spaces around it to take advantage of its status.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

jaxlongtimer

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #162 on: September 17, 2021, 10:30:25 PM »
The Landing was iconic but we tore it down. Anyone know of another city that had an orange roof colored horseshoe shaped structure in the heart of its skyline? One could argue that the Main Street Bridge is also iconic......just as much as that pedestrian bridge in Greensville. However, we have not designed spaces around it to take advantage of its status.

Growing up in Jacksonville, no one really paid attention to the Main Street Bridge (MSB).  In fact, I would argue the original Acosta Bridge may have been more iconic in its day.  That said, I believe the MSB moved toward "iconic" status when it was incorporated into the 2005 Super Bowl logo.  I laughed to myself at the time, thinking this is the best Jax can offer to symbolize the city?  Really? 

That said, calling the MSB a Jax icon today demonstrates that sometimes an icon evolves, it is not simply declared.  It's taken some 80 years for the MSB to move into icon status.  It also demonstrates how historic (translated, aging structures that somehow outlasted their peers that were lost to indiscriminate demolitions) structures often are the real icons of a community and, thus, should be preserved.  You can bet that when the Trio is restored it will become an icon for Downtown.

Speaking of the MSB, I will reiterate its greatest moment came during the 2005 Super Bowl when it was closed to all vehicular traffic and was wall-to-wall pedestrians crossing back and forth across the river.  Today, we should look at partitioning a lane on the MSB to mimic that time and mirror the pedestrian crossing on the Fuller Warren Bridge.  Connecting the two crossings on either side of the river with the Riverwalks would make a great pedestrian loop through Downtown.

acme54321

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #163 on: September 17, 2021, 11:10:30 PM »
I think you're right about the MSB.  These older lift span bridges are disappearing and being replaced so it's become more rare.  Not only that, but it's blue so it stands out and is visible from 95.  Luckily, due to its location, a fixed span can't be reasonably built high enough to maintain 75' accosts the channel or it'd probably be gone too.

jaxlongtimer

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #164 on: September 17, 2021, 11:22:08 PM »
^ It stood out even more during the Super Bowl, especially with the American flags on the towers.  We taxpayers spent millions on decorative/architectural lighting of all our bridges and within just a few years all of it was non-functional.  Effectively, it was all done to look good for one week and after that the City didn't care.

It will be interesting how our bridges hold up with rising seas and the river.  Wonder if anyone has looked into that.

Here is the MSB from the time of the Super Bowl:

« Last Edit: September 17, 2021, 11:26:50 PM by jaxlongtimer »