Author Topic: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan  (Read 18135 times)

Ken_FSU

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #90 on: June 05, 2021, 11:02:03 AM »
https://player.vimeo.com/video/556311640

They did an amazing job with this video.

Has to be the slickest renders I've yet seen for Jax.

Video does a much better job explaining their vision than just the images.

heights unknown

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #91 on: June 05, 2021, 04:58:45 PM »
https://player.vimeo.com/video/556311640

They did an amazing job with this video.

Has to be the slickest renders I've yet seen for Jax.

Video does a much better job explaining their vision than just the images.
Yes! Super job. I love this presentation/rendering and understand much better from this rather from drawings/artist conceptions or renderings. (super promotion and marketing to bring more people to Jax/downtown to live can justify them not being so scared to go vertical on the residential buildings)....LOL.
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landfall

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #92 on: June 06, 2021, 07:23:37 AM »
https://player.vimeo.com/video/556311640

They did an amazing job with this video.

Has to be the slickest renders I've yet seen for Jax.

Video does a much better job explaining their vision than just the images.
Yeah it's a very well put together video.

So far, I'm behind this proposal. Of course we've seen over time how renderings and proposals shrink but the professionalism of the presentation and some of the big players involved in the financing and design is very encouraging.

thelakelander

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #93 on: June 06, 2021, 12:43:37 PM »
Very good presentation. However, I'm under the belief that not much is real at this point. The DIA and COJ haven't bought in to paying 1/2 billion.
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Ken_FSU

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #94 on: June 06, 2021, 02:43:46 PM »
It's disappointing to see the DIA's somewhat standoffish attitude towards Atkins' proposal out of the gate. Reading Lori Boyer's quotes below, and hearing some of the other quotes coming out of the DIA about Atkins' proposal, it almost reads like they feel threatened by someone else wanting to take a run at a master planned development, rather than the piecemeal approach they're currently taking with no real rhyme or reason. It just seems insane to me, for example, that the DIA isn't looking at the former Landing site holistically, but rather RFPing design of the greenspace and figuring out the private development later. Equally insane that they're still stubbornly locked in - per the quotes below - to the jail location for a future convention center, when the costs saving just from not relocating the jail would probably cover a major chunk of this proposal.

I just don't have a lot of faith that they have a unified vision for the Northbank riverfront.

Others might disagree, but the more that I look at this, the more I think it's probably the smartest plan I've seen since moving to Jacksonville in 2005. It addresses nearly everything in one fell swoop - a unified park plan for the riverfront (the DIA is working on each of these pieces in a vacuum); private development at the Landing (an afterthought for the DIA); a convention center plan adjacent to the Hyatt that has the hotel's blessing (a year and a half later, the DIA still hasn't closed with Spandrel, Hyatt refuses to relinquish their right of first refusal, and they continue to cling the most expensive, cost-prohibitive location for a CC); smart marina use of the new alcove at (which the DIA couldn't secure through their RFP); significant residential density (unlike Spandrel's winning bid); significant riverfront restaurant and retail (which the DIA has driven a net loss in over the past few years); active public greenspace and riverwalks (unlike 'Riverfront Plaza' to date and whatever that riverwalk is in front of Morton's); resiliency (again, seems to be an afterthought for the DIA); and what appears to be a smart, cohesive plan for the type of clustering of complimenting uses in a compact pedestrian setting that the site has been pushing for my entire run in Jax.

On top of that, the proposal doesn't appear to be a casual submission put out by some rando hoping to leach some free subsidies. Rather, it's the result of a two-year, $500k effort by one of the few downtown developers actually moving the needle forward this economic cycle. He's got major names backing him on the financing who, per his claims, express a willingness to make this thing happen and front a lot of the upfront expense to get it built.

A half billion in subsidies is going to have some sticker shock, but when you look at the end result (10 buildings, 20+ acres pf park space, 3,000 parking spots, a resilient riverfront, a new marina, tons of new residential density, riverfront retail and restaurants, and a more market appropriate, smart convention center solution than a $500 million-$1.5 billion project elsewhere), it feels like a bargain. If there's a way for the city to debt-finance half of the project and allocate $25 million or so from the CIP annually for the next decade as it was built out, feels like a no brainer.

Particularly when the alternative is watching the DIA drag their feet on each individual parcel for years, with no real unified plan or vision. The Atkins plan - if it worked out - feels like it could be in motion and completed a decade or more before whatever the DIA is doing.

Obviously nothing more renders in a video right now, and the devil is always in the details, but would hate to see the DIA dismiss this thing outright purely out of insecurity or arrogance.

From the Biz Journal:

Quote
The timing is right for the idea, Atkins said, because of the value of being able to conceptualize a plan for some 20 acres of city-owned property. “There has not been an opportunity in a generation to have that many city-owned acres together at one time,” he said.

For Boyer, that plan may be too late, because of the projects already in the works, or premature: The DIA is in the process of updating its own masterplan, which was adopted by the city in 2014.

From the DIA’s standpoint, its masterplan for downtown — which will take into account other property, including the disposition of the county jail, plans for the sports district and other neighborhoods — will lay out the direction downtown needs to take.

“It’s an even higher level vision,” Boyer said about that masterplan. “We just don’t have the pretty graphics. We hope to have them by the end of summer or early fall.”

From the T-U:

Quote
“If I have to go one more year and hear about ‘the potential,’ my head is going to explode," Atkins said. "It is time for us to act in a bold way with a bold plan and to make Jacksonville the city we all know we want it to be — a world-class, first-tier city.”

Downtown Investment Authority CEO Lori Boyer, who met previously with Atkins to hear his about Riverfront Jacksonville, noted the agency did not seek a proposal from him.

DIA previously selected a developer for two of the parcels that Atkins envisions being part of Riverfront Jacksonville. DIA also is doing a separate design competition for Riverfront Plaza, the land that used to be the site of the Jacksonville Landing.

Boyer said the unveiling of Riverfront Jacksonville does not change DIA's current approach to that part of downtown.

"I don’t want the market to get the wrong message," she said. "I don’t want the market to think that all of these properties are taken out of play and are spoken for. They’re not."

She said DIA would be open to "entertain and look at Steve's ideas when the time is right."

A key to Southeast Development's approach is it would have a master developer for parcels of city-owned land that the Downtown Investment Authority has been marketing separately up to this point.

"I'm a big believer in master plans and I think that the type of development that we need to see on the Northbank, particularly in what is essentially the face of Jacksonville, needs to be addressed in a master plan," Atkins said. "I think that's critical."

Atkins said Riverfront Jacksonville would set buildings back from the river so the development could incorporate green space for the public to enjoy being along the river while also bringing new construction into that area of downtown.

The Downtown Investment Authority currently is doing a design competition for building park space at Riverfront Plaza, the new name of the site where the Landing was razed. DIA officials have said that after determining the layout of green space, they will then seek development proposals for the remaining land.

The DIA separately sought developers last year for the vacant land where the old City Hall Annex and former county courthouse used to stand along Bay Street.

The DIA board selected Spandrel Development Partners in February 2020 for those parcels.

"At the moment, that site is off the table," Boyer said.

Riverfront Jacksonville would want to use the property more intensively with a 27-level tower with 410-unit residential mix of condominium and apartments, and another building Atkins calls the Exhibition, Entertainment & Technology Center that would have large-scale convention exhibition space.

He said it would not be a convention center, but it would have the space that allows the next-door Hyatt Regency hotel to attract conventions that bypass Jacksonville.

“This is not your dad’s convention center," he said. "This is new. This is fresh and this something that allows us to compete in the market.”

Boyer said DIA has considered that site for convention activity previously but the preferred site is the property for a convention center would be where the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office complex now stands along Bay Street.

She said the decision on moving forward on a convention center also hinges on getting downtown to the point where it has enough activities that will attract convention-goers as a destination for their meetings.

Riverfront Jacksonville also envisions construction of new buildings on the city-owned parking lot on the side of the Main Street bridge opposite from Riverfront Plaza. Boyer said that would be a good site for redevelopment but there are steps the city needs to go through before putting that city-owned land on the market.

marcuscnelson

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #95 on: June 06, 2021, 05:47:29 PM »
^ On one hand, I can imagine DIA feeling like they got burned with the Berkman II/500 East Bay mess, and wanting to in-house the work after watching Lot J blow up.

But on the other, come on. For the market to waltz in and tell us that they'll build everything and more if we just pay back half (eventually), at greater scale than anything in downtown's recent history, and to turn your nose up because you want to spend the equivalent of our share just to get an empty lot where the jail used to be? Are they serious right now?

I've said before and I'll say it again, I want the DIA to do their due diligence on this project and make sure we're not actually getting ripped off or anything, but not if they're doing so through the lens of killing it so they can dilly-daily through the next economic cycle.

I also said earlier, but given where we visibly appear to be in terms of the riverfront, I see no reason why we can't get the Landing/Riverfront Plaza winner to work with this consortium and move Spandrel to a parcel we actually have the leverage to let them use. There's nothing about Spandel's project that requires them to be on that space, which there's no way in hell we're going to convince Hyatt to let them have. I don't understand what makes Boyer or anyone else at DIA think that Hyatt has any reason at all to give up their leverage, especially so city money can build a competing product down the street.

The only thing I would personally stop and think about is the fact that once we do something like this we should really export some of the lessons we've learned and make investments in neighborhoods outside downtown. But that's a calculation based on the prospect that people will start getting upset if we spend a billion dollars in public money on downtown (between this, Shipyards+Stadium, RiversEdge, and various other projects in LaVilla or Brooklyn) and nothing outside of it. At some point we have to spread the love.

I guess we could at least wait until the end of summer to see the DIA's alternative, see what's on their plate. But if they're going to propose spending a billion dollars on a brand new convention center that their own studies apparently said the market couldn't support, and reject the market's proposed alternative (that's in line with what groups like the Civic Council advocated for a decade ago), then I'm all-in on Atkins. Maybe his group needs to copy what Khan is doing and start seeking public support to lobby for it.
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thelakelander

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #96 on: June 06, 2021, 06:52:54 PM »
It's disappointing to see the DIA's somewhat standoffish attitude towards Atkins' proposal out of the gate. Reading Lori Boyer's quotes below, and hearing some of the other quotes coming out of the DIA about Atkins' proposal, it almost reads like they feel threatened by someone else wanting to take a run at a master planned development, rather than the piecemeal approach they're currently taking with no real rhyme or reason. It just seems insane to me, for example, that the DIA isn't looking at the former Landing site holistically, but rather RFPing design of the greenspace and figuring out the private development later. Equally insane that they're still stubbornly locked in - per the quotes below - to the jail location for a future convention center, when the costs saving just from not relocating the jail would probably cover a major chunk of this proposal.

I just don't have a lot of faith that they have a unified vision for the Northbank riverfront.

Unfortunately, they don't. If the community doesn't know it, it ain't and never was a unified vision for the Northbank. The continued references to the 2014 CRA Plan pretty much solidify that. If that was a master plan, then it was a pretty bad one. A master plan should include what you actually plan to do with your publicly owned properties and when you plan to implement said vision. That CRA plan was about as ambiguous as they come.

Quote
Others might disagree, but the more that I look at this, the more I think it's probably the smartest plan I've seen since moving to Jacksonville in 2005. It addresses nearly everything in one fell swoop - a unified park plan for the riverfront (the DIA is working on each of these pieces in a vacuum); private development at the Landing (an afterthought for the DIA); a convention center plan adjacent to the Hyatt that has the hotel's blessing (a year and a half later, the DIA still hasn't closed with Spandrel, Hyatt refuses to relinquish their right of first refusal, and they continue to cling the most expensive, cost-prohibitive location for a CC); smart marina use of the new alcove at (which the DIA couldn't secure through their RFP); significant residential density (unlike Spandrel's winning bid); significant riverfront restaurant and retail (which the DIA has driven a net loss in over the past few years); active public greenspace and riverwalks (unlike 'Riverfront Plaza' to date and whatever that riverwalk is in front of Morton's); resiliency (again, seems to be an afterthought for the DIA); and what appears to be a smart, cohesive plan for the type of clustering of complimenting uses in a compact pedestrian setting that the site has been pushing for my entire run in Jax.

It's basically the only plan you've seen for the riverfront since 2005. With that said, I get the DIA's initial position. They already have active deals and plans (yeah, some should be scrapped but it is what it is) for some of the sites, despite them being piecemealed. The Atkins plan will be better than whatever they produce later this year. The DIA consulting team does not have the multidisplinary experience or the capacity to produce or propose what the Atkins team did. I also don't believe they are under contract to produce something equivalent. Instead they are doing stuff like attempting to rebrand neighborhood names. Both plans still largely lack transparent community engagement. For example, the mix of people included in the Atkins video resemble the 1950s moreso than the culturally diverse community we live in and should be planning for today. It's very hard to say that the greenspace illustrated in the renderings speak to what people really want to see in an urban park space. Needless to say, they'll still win public support over whatever the DIA comes up with, which puts the DIA in a bad position.

Quote
On top of that, the proposal doesn't appear to be a casual submission put out by some rando hoping to leach some free subsidies. Rather, it's the result of a two-year, $500k effort by one of the few downtown developers actually moving the needle forward this economic cycle. He's got major names backing him on the financing who, per his claims, express a willingness to make this thing happen and front a lot of the upfront expense to get it built.

A half billion in subsidies is going to have some sticker shock, but when you look at the end result (10 buildings, 20+ acres pf park space, 3,000 parking spots, a resilient riverfront, a new marina, tons of new residential density, riverfront retail and restaurants, and a more market appropriate, smart convention center solution than a $500 million-$1.5 billion project elsewhere), it feels like a bargain. If there's a way for the city to debt-finance half of the project and allocate $25 million or so from the CIP annually for the next decade as it was built out, feels like a no brainer.

While there were some big names tossed,the DIA's reality is that the Laura Street Trio still hasn't broken ground yet and neither has the garage across the street. Even if they decide to have a developer master plan the riverfront, there would still be some caution they'd have to display at this point, as well as allow for other development groups to compete for the opportunity.

Quote
Particularly when the alternative is watching the DIA drag their feet on each individual parcel for years, with no real unified plan or vision. The Atkins plan - if it worked out - feels like it could be in motion and completed a decade or more before whatever the DIA is doing.

Obviously nothing more renders in a video right now, and the devil is always in the details, but would hate to see the DIA dismiss this thing outright purely out of insecurity or arrogance.

Yes, the devil will be in the details, if this gets to a point where the details can be vetted and discussed.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2021, 06:56:31 PM by thelakelander »
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jaxlongtimer

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #97 on: June 06, 2021, 09:34:58 PM »
Two thoughts for now:

(1) How does the DIA approach to Atkins plan compare to that of Khan's?  Given Khan's uneven track record of not delivering the fully proposed design on Daily's Place, the Lot J fiasco, the Met Park "screw the National Park Service" plan and the endless messing around with the Shipyards, at this point, is he that much more credible in delivering his renderings over anyone else?

(2)  Riverfront Parks Now may also have some concepts for DIA to consider that could impact these various plans.  I would like to see their ideas incorporated into a master planning process if they differ substantially from Atkins and Khan.

landfall

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #98 on: June 07, 2021, 05:35:27 PM »
Does anyone have the slightest idea if the Landing bids will include the construction of any buildings or is just merely landscaping?

marcuscnelson

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #99 on: June 08, 2021, 12:12:31 AM »
Does anyone have the slightest idea if the Landing bids will include the construction of any buildings or is just merely landscaping?

The only buildings that would be included right now are park-related infrastructure, so maybe bathrooms, maintenance and the like. Any vertical construction of development isn't happening until after that, because that's the DIA's great plan.
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thelakelander

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #100 on: June 08, 2021, 07:04:47 AM »
The Landing park plans won't include vertical private development. The consulting teams competing aren't developers. Instead, they'll focus on the park design itself and leave pads for future vertical private sector development.  I think people will see that being a major difference between what the DIA will produce and what Atkins has shown. Don't expect a DIA master plan to suggest what building should be a hotel, food hall or condo tower. Those are things the market will have to decide.
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landfall

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #101 on: June 17, 2021, 06:06:38 PM »
https://jaxriverfront.com/

Theres a website live and also social media pages setup, they're pretty gungho with the publicity of it. Videos, renderings, appearances, media coverage, now a website.

Still, as said above, its taken them long enough to get going on the Laura Street Trio and thats a drop in the ocean comparatively.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 06:08:32 PM by landfall »

landfall

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #102 on: June 18, 2021, 08:47:24 AM »

Zac T

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #103 on: July 13, 2021, 09:22:44 PM »
Southeast Development announced the addition of 300 residential units to their master plan, increasing the total number of units to 1,005. This includes 255 additional market-rate apartments and 45 condos. 

Really great step towards increasing the density and viability of this project.  I think Perkins & Will has a better plan for the Landing park but everything else in Southeast's plan looks great. If the city embraces it, I think this would be a major win for downtown and the riverfront especially when you factor in the potential park at the Shipyards and a forthcoming proposal from Fuqua for the TU property. Jax finally embracing the St Johns River might end up being the best thing to come out of the 2020's.

Here's updated renderings:


Charles Hunter

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Re: Riverfront Jacksonville: $1.1 billion Master Plan
« Reply #104 on: July 13, 2021, 11:00:48 PM »
Are they replacing the Hyatt?  It looks like it, but I can't tell for sure.