Is U2C serious? Help me make it make sense....

[Ken_FSU]

^ Just adding Ford's statement in this article for posters to parse if they wish...  .  To me, he admits we are basically a pay-to-be industry guinea pig courtesy of Duval taxpayers.

“The JTA is proud to lead, and once again position the State of Florida, in pioneering¹ procurement opportunities for this transformative technology, poised to redefine mobility and deliver lasting benefits to our communities,” said JTA CEO Ford in a release. “This bold initiative will not only address local needs², but also set a new standard for innovation, creating solutions that empower transit providers across the nation³ to elevate their services and expand their impact.”

1. A city with a broken bus system and no traditional fixed rail transit is in no position to pioneer anything before they get the fundamentals right.
2. Broken record, been saying it for years, but what local need does a 1.5 mile clown car circuit in a catatonic urban area address? I'm here everyday. Unless they're invisible, I'm not seeing thousands of frustrated pedestrians on the street looking for a 3.5 mph ride from a brownfield to an undeveloped lot.
3. To your point, this is the line from Nat Ford that screams, "I'm doing it for me and my career, not for the City of Jacksonville."

Does anybody know if there's even an exit path left for U2C? I imagine all the grant money would need to be repaid if we abandoned clowncar. I just can't fathom how this thing continues to move forward unchecked.

[jaxlongtimer]

^ With a Trump administration to surely be anti-mass transit funding, maybe U2C will die on the vine as Federal $$$ won't be coming for it.  Add, aside from the previously noted concerns from FDOT about its feasibility, with DeSantis trying to mimic Trump, the State may also not be politically excited about this project. 

With no chance of Federal or State dollars, I can't imagine us locals will stand much longer for throwing our hard earned dollars at this boondoggle.  We may be stuck with a $100+ million write off at this point but that will be better than throwing hundreds of millions more at it going forward, i.e. just stop the bleeding.  Kill U2C and the Skyway and forever never utter their names again  .

[thelakelander]

Does anybody know if there's even an exit path left for U2C? I imagine all the grant money would need to be repaid if we abandoned clowncar. I just can't fathom how this thing continues to move forward unchecked.

What grant money? The lion's share of U2C funds are local. If there was real belief in this at the state and federal levels, the amount of funding provided from those sources should have been closer to 75% of the project's cost.

[marcuscnelson]

^ With a Trump administration to surely be anti-mass transit funding, maybe U2C will die on the vine as Federal $$$ won't be coming for it.  Add, aside from the previously noted concerns from FDOT about its feasibility, with DeSantis trying to mimic Trump, the State may also not be politically excited about this project. 

With no chance of Federal or State dollars, I can't imagine us locals will stand much longer for throwing our hard earned dollars at this boondoggle.  We may be stuck with a $100+ million write off at this point but that will be better than throwing hundreds of millions more at it going forward, i.e. just stop the bleeding.  Kill U2C and the Skyway and forever never utter their names again  .

To the contrary:

The first Trump administration was what took this from being a silly idea to a ridiculous commitment in the first place with the BUILD Grant. I wouldn't expect substantially more money with how things are looking, but there's no indication that the attitude will shift into the opposite direction. Meanwhile, the embrace of Elon Musk is likely to result in regulatory changes to support Tesla's "Full Self Driving (Unsupervised)" getting on roads, which the U2C could be an additional beneficiary of. DeSantis has had years to mimic Trump and yet has refused for years now to take a public position on the U2C, or really on JTA at all beyond one or two side comments and the relatively minor changes in this year's transportation bill (which has larger consequences for being able to build mass transit at all).

And on top of that, there is just no indication that locally, anyone with the power to do anything about the U2C is in fact tired of throwing money at it. Either they support it or they refuse to pay it any mind for reasons I don't understand. No one else is going to save the city from spending mostly its own money on a bad idea.

[jaxlongtimer]

^ I expect this Trump administration to be far different than the last one.  Basically, they seem to be against most everything that exists today regarding government activity and/or funding.  Elon is promising he, alone, will cut $2 trillion from the annual $6 trillion budget.  I don't expect he will succeed but projects like the U2C are low hanging fruit to avoid at all costs.  That is assuming Trump hasn't "fired" him beforehand as many Trump insiders say Elon is wearing out his welcome.  Assuming there is a shred of ethics left in a Trump administration, admittedly doubtful, Elon shouldn't be in a position to fund projects benefitting Tesla.  He can push back on regulations but that doesn't offset exposure to lawsuits for the technology's failures and that acts as a brake on rollouts such as U2C which is likely even riskier than a privately operated Tesla car.  If nothing else, count on Rory Diamond to follow up given his politics and position on U2C  .

DeSantis is thinking of his next steps/future including a run for a senate seat.  Despite his differences with Trump, like so many others who have been in the same position, he will be working extra hard to get back in the good graces of his followers if not directly with Trump.  U2C would be a great thing for him to again not be associated with.

Locally, every project has a breaking point.  The city gave the Jags a lot but not necessarily everything they asked for.  Deegan is drawing a line with the Trio even though she likely wants to see it done in the end.  I don't see U2C having unqualified support over time.  When the budget balloons, opposition from more corners on the council and elsewhere is likely to grow.  There is a number out there and/or time frame to succeed that, if busted, will cause patience of supporters to dramatically fade, if for no other reason than political expediency in response to building taxpayer outrage.

P.S. I note that Nate Monroe's column is now identified as a state-wide column for Gannett so it appears now that he only writes on issues that appeal to a state-wide audience.  A big loss for Jax that he no longer delves into issues like U2C that so desperately need to be exposed to a larger audience.

[thelakelander]

I don't see U2C having unqualified support over time.  When the budget balloons, opposition from more corners on the council and elsewhere is likely to grow.  There is a number out there and/or time frame to succeed that, if busted, will cause patience of supporters to dramatically fade, if for no other reason than political expediency in response to building taxpayer outrage.

The U2C has never had unqualified support, even with Curry's administration and council. When it was evident, it would take down the LOGT, they quickly took half of pot intended for the U2C and moved it to the popular Emerald Trail. It seems like politicians are willing to let Nat Ford and the U2C prove themselves with the +$60 million Bay Street Innovation Corridor or let it die on the vine when it fails.

[Charles Hunter]

I assume the North Florida TPO passed the Long Range Transportation Plan as it was presented to the Board. Neither the NFTPO nor the 2050 Path Forward sites have anything about the November 6 meeting. 
The draft circulated just before the meeting includes the following U2C projects, to be done by 2029:
* 5 U2C routes, including Bay Street - Each project: "Purchase 14 AV, charging equipment, corridor infrastructure, and skyway connection" - The Bay Street Corridor is funded at $65.2 million, each of the other four have $1.4 million "partial funding" - That's 70 AVs within five years
* Skyway Modernization - "Modernize the Skyway infrastructure and operations to support the AV network" - $9 million "partial funding"
* FSCJ AV Pilot - "Expand pilot to additional campuses. This pilots [sic] will get the public familiar with riding AV services and expand JTA's expertise in establishing and operating AV services" - $325,000 "partial funding"
* Autonomous Innovation Center - "Construction of an autonomous vehicle maintenance and storage facility and operations center. It will included a command center, charging equipment, and offices." $16 million - Pretty sure this is what is under construction on Bay Street, designed for 20 AVs. Not really sure what it means for the "partial funding" projects. Is JTA anticipating federal or state grants for the remainder of the costs?

[jax_hwy_engineer]

Maybe we can all @ Elon on Xitter and get him to shut this project down as a part of his new DOGE because it's inefficient AND because he would get jealous over a competing AV program

[marcuscnelson]

Meanwhile, the embrace of Elon Musk is likely to result in regulatory changes to support Tesla's "Full Self Driving (Unsupervised)" getting on roads, which the U2C could be an additional beneficiary of.

This appears to be beginning to materialize:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-11-17/trump-team-said-to-want-to-ease-us-rules-for-self-driving-cars

Members of President-elect Donald Trump’s transition team have told advisers they plan to make a federal framework for self-driving vehicles one of the Transportation Department’s priorities, according to people familiar with the matter.

If new rules enable wider deployment of cars without human controls, it will directly benefit Elon Musk, the Tesla Inc. chief executive officer and Trump mega-donor who’s become a powerful fixture in the president-elect’s inner circle. He’s bet the future of the EV maker on self-driving technology and artificial intelligence.

[jaxlongtimer]

^ Trump picks FDOT secretary that is supposedly very tuned in to Musk's desires regarding self driving cars.  Maybe JTA can take safety off their list of requirements and just hope to keep the body count down for PR purposes.

[Charles Hunter]

(The Bloomberg article is behind a paywall - well, a "subscribe to this related publication if you want to read the article" wall)

To borrow from one of the greatest movies
Captain Renault: I'm shocked! Shocked to find that gambling is going on in here.
[a croupier hands Renault a pile of money]
Croupier: Your winnings, sir.

Am I surprised? No.

^ Trump picks FDOT secretary that is supposedly very turned in to Musk's desires regarding self driving cars.  Maybe JTA can take safety off their list of requirements and just hope to keep the body count down for PR purposes.

Maybe JTA can borrow from Team Donnie and blame Biden/Harris/Liz Cheney for any 'unfortunate' interactions between U2C and irresponsible pedestrians or cars.

[jaxlongtimer]

GM kills Cruise robotaxi division.  Maybe JTA can show them how it is done.  Only need $2 billion/year for unlimited years to get going.

After spending more than $10 billion on its robotaxi unit, General Motors
 is abandoning its Cruise driverless ride-hailing service.

The Detroit automaker on Tuesday said it will no longer fund its Cruise division’s robotaxi development and will instead fold the unit into its broader tech team.

“Cruise was well on its way to a robotaxi business — but when you look at the fact you’re deploying a fleet, there’s a whole operations piece of doing that,” GM CEO Mary Barra said on a call Tuesday. Barra said GM would instead focus on the development of autonomous systems for use in personal vehicles.

GM cited the increasingly competitive robotaxi market, capital allocation priorities and the considerable time and resources necessary to grow the business as reasons for its decision.

The company will combine the majority-owned Cruise LLC with GM technical teams. Barra, who also serves as board chair of Cruise, said the companies have yet to determine how many employees will move to GM. Cruise has nearly 2,300 employees, a GM spokesperson told CNBC.

GM acquired Cruise in 2016. The automaker currently owns about 90% of Cruise and has agreements with other shareholders that will raise its ownership to more than 97%, GM said in a statement. GM anticipates it will complete acquisition of remaining Cruise shares from outside shareholders by early 2025, CFO Paul Jacobson said Tuesday.

GM’s current annual expenditure on Cruise amounted to about $2 billion, and the restructuring would cut that by more than half, Jacobson said....

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/12/10/gm-halts-funding-of-robotaxi-development-by-cruise.html

[Ken_FSU]

^Gets back to the echo chamber problem. When the average citizen can see an absolute, generational, billion-dollar trainwreck coming with this dumpster fire, yet the DIA, DVI, Chamber, Mayor’s office, City Council, JaxUSA, and Visit Jax are all radio silent on the U2C - even though public transportation is key to downtown, regional, business, and tourism growth - we’re kinda fucked. Have been bouncing around for work the last few weeks - in New York now, Nashville last week, San Fran, Atlanta - it is just so insanely depressing to see how many other cities have nailed the basics and have seen quality of life and development explode as a result, and we’re still collectively sticking our heads in the sand as a populace while one man squanders DECADES of our gas tax on a RIDICULOUS vanity project serving 1.5 fucking miles of desolate brownfield while COMPLETELY ignoring tried and true fixed transportation solutions that could genuinely make a difference in this city.  I genuinely hate it, and everyone in leadership turning a blind eye and not speaking up should be ashamed of themselves.

[marcuscnelson]

At this point I'm resigned to just watching this all implode in… well we're really down to about seven months at this point.

For years people here and in the media have been clear that we can do better than this, but for whatever reason everyone who could do better has chosen to close ranks and face the music instead.

I guess all we can do is our best to pick up the pieces after.

[jcjohnpaint]

Unfortunately, the fallout will be so bad that we will end up tearing down the skyway, paying back the government, Nat Ford will retire with a huge benefit package and we will be left with nothing.