RD River City Brewing restaurant proposed

[thelakelander]

I'm not sure. However, they have stated that they don't intend to sell the property to the city or anyone else.

[acme54321]

There were a few construction trucks out there today.  Note sure what they were doing as they were wrapping up when I got to the boat ramp.

[simms3]

Lori Boyer isn’t the right fit to lead the DIA.

I'm not making an argument either way about the DIA but wondering what your thoughts would be.

I you were in her position, how would you go about resolving the core Related project issue (project not being economically feasible) that appears to have killed it? More extensions? Additional city incentives?

My frustration is less with the project itself falling through, and more with Lori Boyer and the DIA cheerfully going along with the demolition of one of our few remaining riverfront restaurants years before the project was set to break ground.

It's a pattern of destruction and ineptitude we've seen time and time again from Lori Boyer - making near unilateral decisions, with real consequences to downtown vibrancy, based on her own shoddy hunches.

For the Related project, let's not forget that she was fine with letting Related develop the project with no restaurant whatsoever, citing her belief that the apartments might result in a random "fish camp" opening up nearby in an undisclosed location. Oliver Barakat is the one who went to bat for the inclusion of the restaurant. The DIA allowed the 77-year lease to be transferred to Related and River City to be torn down, with limited assurances from Related that the project would actually break ground.

For the Landing, Lori Boyer again definitively stated that if we knock down the Landing immediately and clear out those 30 businesses adding vibrancy to the CBD, the RFP would be much more attractive to private development. So, we rushed to tear down the Landing, got one response to the RFP, and years later, we're no closer to private development.

For the Landing Park, Lori Boyer picked the winning firm, by her own words, because of the "JAX" art installation. As soon as the public started bashing the statue, she claims that it might not even end up in the park, making a total mockery of the RFP process and invalidating the entire reason P+W was chosen to design the Landing Park.

Ford on Bay is on its 3rd RFP, and doesn't appear anywhere close to breaking ground. Despite claiming during the RFP process that she would favor a firm willing to get to work immediately, the timelines for this one stretch out years into the future as well, with substantial changes already being made to the winning bid.

Ditto Berkman 2.

Lori Boyer seems to have unilaterally decided that the site of our current jail is the best place for a convention center - a proclamation not backed by any formal study that's publicly available, and one that's going to add 20 years and a billion dollars to our convention center timeline.

She's allowed an illegal parking lot to operate on the old Greyhound bus site for several years under the ridiculous claim that a Miami developer is going to build an 80-story tower on the site. She doesn't seem to know what a master plan actually is, and remains steadfastly committed to this bloated 10,000-resident magic bullet.

The Friendship Fountain renovation project was supposed to be finished in 2021; the park remains roped off.

To your original question, projects fall through, developers back out, and incentive packages expire. That's fine on occasion. But if you're leading the charge for downtown revitalization in a major Top 40 city during a historic population boom, you've got to be able to close some of these deals, carry them through to construction in a timely fashion, and attract investment from outside of Jacksonville. And in four years, that just hasn't happened as much as it should have.

We're just spinning our wheels, particularly on the riverfront, while cities like Nashville, Atlanta, Tampa, and Orlando just keep building.

AMEN to basically all of this.  One of biggest pet peeves since moving back has been this fixation on the 10K residents (now units) number.  I'm glad someone else has said it!

I'll just add this as a mayoral campaign plug - Jacksonville has a bad reputation outside of itself, so attracting outside money is pretty difficult.  We've had many botched RFPs now (each one costs competing firms sometimes significant money in pursuit costs).  We have a "network" of locals who get taken care of at everyone else's obvious loss or missed opportunity.

If Dan Davis wins, our bad "good ole boy" reputation with the corruption that ensues will just continue.  I'm not saying I want Donna Deegan, a Democrat, who cried the day Andrew Gillum lost and Ron DeSantis won, to be our mayor.  But I sure as hell don't want Davis either.  I'll leave the rest to imagination

[fieldafm]

I'll just add this as a mayoral campaign plug - Jacksonville has a bad reputation outside of itself, so attracting outside money is pretty difficult.  We've had many botched RFPs now (each one costs competing firms sometimes significant money in pursuit costs).  We have a "network" of locals who get taken care of at everyone else's obvious loss or missed opportunity.

Downtown Jax's biggest problem is that its used essentially as an ATM for the politically connected.

It is not a free market in any way shape or form. 

[jaxlongtimer]

If Dan Davis wins, our bad "good ole boy" reputation with the corruption that ensues will just continue.  I'm not saying I want Donna Deegan, a Democrat, who cried the day Andrew Gillum lost and Ron DeSantis won, to be our mayor.  But I sure as hell don't want Davis either.  I'll leave the rest to imagination

LOL.  Deegan deserves credit for appreciating the kind of governor DeSantis would be.  Probably a lot more have cried over his election since then  .

[simms3]

If Dan Davis wins, our bad "good ole boy" reputation with the corruption that ensues will just continue.  I'm not saying I want Donna Deegan, a Democrat, who cried the day Andrew Gillum lost and Ron DeSantis won, to be our mayor.  But I sure as hell don't want Davis either.  I'll leave the rest to imagination

LOL.  Deegan deserves credit for appreciating the kind of governor DeSantis would be.  Probably a lot more have cried over his election since then  .

And even more are overjoyed.  Count me in as one of those.  The man just took Miami Dade County for Pete's sake.  Those who are horrified seem to be white liberals who have a lot of white guilt.

The good news is that for those out there with such guilt hanging over their heads, LeAnna is a) that nearly all encompassing person of color designation (with a name like Gutierrez and a Pakistani man named Hussein as her husband), and b) a woman.  She would be tons of "firsts" for Jacksonville.  I obviously know it doesn't work that way.  If she were a liberal democrat then these things would be played up and assuage the white guilt that many white liberals have, but since she's a conservative republican they won't help her with this crowd.

She's definitely someone who will shake up the Good Old Boy system and that is why they are coming after her so hard.  I hope she wins.

[Charles Hunter]

She must think her Cuban heritage will help the way she is emphasizing it in her campaign ads. I had no idea until her ads started running.

And it seems [Davis] PAC is using her husband's name as a negative in their attack ads. Sort of like the MAGA crowd emphasized Pres. Obama's middle name.  (ooooh scary Middle Eastern name oooooh)

[vicupstate]

If Dan Davis wins, our bad "good ole boy" reputation with the corruption that ensues will just continue.  I'm not saying I want Donna Deegan, a Democrat, who cried the day Andrew Gillum lost and Ron DeSantis won, to be our mayor.  But I sure as hell don't want Davis either.  I'll leave the rest to imagination

LOL.  Deegan deserves credit for appreciating the kind of governor DeSantis would be.  Probably a lot more have cried over his election since then  .

And even more are overjoyed.  Count me in as one of those.  The man just took Miami Dade County for Pete's sake.  Those who are horrified seem to be white liberals who have a lot of white guilt.

The good news is that for those out there with such guilt hanging over their heads, LeAnna is a) that nearly all encompassing person of color designation (with a name like Gutierrez and a Pakistani man named Hussein as her husband), and b) a woman.  She would be tons of "firsts" for Jacksonville.  I obviously know it doesn't work that way.  If she were a liberal democrat then these things would be played up and assuage the white guilt that many white liberals have, but since she's a conservative republican they won't help her with this crowd.

She's definitely someone who will shake up the Good Old Boy system and that is why they are coming after her so hard.  I hope she wins.

is

Why should a liberal support someone just because of their race, when they don't share their beliefs, and in fact hold the opposite beliefs??

The only 'white guilt' that SHOULD exist is that of DeSantis lovers that believe that history shouldn't be taught as it happened, but as sanitized mythology.

As for Cumber, hasn't the Davis campaign been the one doing the attacking?

[fsu813]

As for Cumber, hasn't the Davis campaign been the one doing the attacking?

Cumber has done more attacking than Davis, thus far.

And she has to, if she wants to win.

[Snaketoz]

The first negative ad I saw was one from the Davis camp.  He cried Friday with his police buddies at a new conference when Cumber got down in the mud with Davis.  I hope both of these buffoons lose, especially Curry.2 Davis.

[jaxoNOLE]

Realistically, we should try to encourage them grassing it (as others suggested) and expand events like Sip and Stroll out there, to include more vendors and have it be a low-grade park adjacent to the fountain. For that matter, dedicating a few bucks to security at this site and Lenny's Lawn and waiving open container laws on select days could encourage some picnicking and marginal activity in otherwise desolate spaces. People will find a way to enjoy the riverfront if you let them. Lease the land back for a dollar a year, pay for basic upgrades and security...yeah, the taxpayers got hosed, but at least let us use the space in exchange. The repurchase right should give us SOME leverage if Related won't play ball.

Related controls the land now and has no plans to sell. Without a doubt, they'll come back with an alternative plan and ask for millions in incentives. The question is if that happens within the next year, years or a decade from now?

When it comes to them allowing the public on their property, who is responsible for the liability associated with that? When it comes with greening the property, who is responsible for paying to tear up the parking lot, remove various utilities, level and sod the property for a temporary use? I find it hard to believe that Related would cover any of those costs or assume the liability of people getting hurt on the property. IMO, it will likely stay in its current condition for the foreseeable future.

Well I guess the question is moot, as I didn't realize that the repurchase right was only if Related chooses to sell.

But hypothetically, if the city had secured the right to reclaim the property, it should give them leverage to secure some sort of interim deal. What's mind boggling, but for the fact it's happened many times before, is that we build ZERO real back-end accountability or levers into these tear-down deals. There's no way to reclaim what's been lost, but there must be some conditions that can be placed into future deals to prevent developers sitting on undeveloped property that was conveyed under the pretense of a DIA deal, no?

[Tacachale]

If Dan Davis wins, our bad "good ole boy" reputation with the corruption that ensues will just continue.  I'm not saying I want Donna Deegan, a Democrat, who cried the day Andrew Gillum lost and Ron DeSantis won, to be our mayor.  But I sure as hell don't want Davis either.  I'll leave the rest to imagination

LOL.  Deegan deserves credit for appreciating the kind of governor DeSantis would be.  Probably a lot more have cried over his election since then  .

And even more are overjoyed.  Count me in as one of those.  The man just took Miami Dade County for Pete's sake.  Those who are horrified seem to be white liberals who have a lot of white guilt.

The good news is that for those out there with such guilt hanging over their heads, LeAnna is a) that nearly all encompassing person of color designation (with a name like Gutierrez and a Pakistani man named Hussein as her husband), and b) a woman.  She would be tons of "firsts" for Jacksonville.  I obviously know it doesn't work that way.  If she were a liberal democrat then these things would be played up and assuage the white guilt that many white liberals have, but since she's a conservative republican they won't help her with this crowd.

She's definitely someone who will shake up the Good Old Boy system and that is why they are coming after her so hard.  I hope she wins.

LOL, "white guilt"? The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

[Tacachale]

Realistically, we should try to encourage them grassing it (as others suggested) and expand events like Sip and Stroll out there, to include more vendors and have it be a low-grade park adjacent to the fountain. For that matter, dedicating a few bucks to security at this site and Lenny's Lawn and waiving open container laws on select days could encourage some picnicking and marginal activity in otherwise desolate spaces. People will find a way to enjoy the riverfront if you let them. Lease the land back for a dollar a year, pay for basic upgrades and security...yeah, the taxpayers got hosed, but at least let us use the space in exchange. The repurchase right should give us SOME leverage if Related won't play ball.

Related controls the land now and has no plans to sell. Without a doubt, they'll come back with an alternative plan and ask for millions in incentives. The question is if that happens within the next year, years or a decade from now?

When it comes to them allowing the public on their property, who is responsible for the liability associated with that? When it comes with greening the property, who is responsible for paying to tear up the parking lot, remove various utilities, level and sod the property for a temporary use? I find it hard to believe that Related would cover any of those costs or assume the liability of people getting hurt on the property. IMO, it will likely stay in its current condition for the foreseeable future.

Well I guess the question is moot, as I didn't realize that the repurchase right was only if Related chooses to sell.

But hypothetically, if the city had secured the right to reclaim the property, it should give them leverage to secure some sort of interim deal. What's mind boggling, but for the fact it's happened many times before, is that we build ZERO real back-end accountability or levers into these tear-down deals. There's no way to reclaim what's been lost, but there must be some conditions that can be placed into future deals to prevent developers sitting on undeveloped property that was conveyed under the pretense of a DIA deal, no?

The city does have some leverage to withhold funds, but that just delays the project more. They don't have leverage to push the project forward faster, which is what they really need.