Author Topic: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?  (Read 45354 times)

Charles Hunter

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #120 on: June 20, 2021, 04:26:00 PM »
Don't forget, this language appears for each section of the law:
Quote
A person arrested for a violation of this section shall be held in custody until brought before the court for admittance to bail

No being given a summons to appear, no released on recognizance - you sit in jail until your bail hearing.

BridgeTroll

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #121 on: June 21, 2021, 02:36:15 PM »
Police have zero interest in arresting innocent bystanders. This addresses willfully participating in violent acts.  Peaceful protesters have nothing to be concerned about...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Adam White

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #122 on: June 21, 2021, 03:17:37 PM »
Police have zero interest in arresting innocent bystanders. This addresses willfully participating in violent acts.  Peaceful protesters have nothing to be concerned about...

I'm glad that's how you feel. Unfortunately, you are not all police and you are not the one making the judgement call about who is or isn't "innocent" or a "bystander". Re-reading the posts, it seems you are very comfortable stating what others think - whether it is DeSantis or the police. I have no idea what any of them think - I can just see that this law is worded in such a way that it could easily lead to 'over zealous application' by someone without sufficient scruples.

I find it funny how "small government" types are all for big government when it's directed at people they don't like. And no, before you get a case of the vapours BT, I'm not necessarily referring to you.

The fact that this legislation is facing legal challenges leads me to believe that far cleverer legal minds than ours see this as problematic. As you said earlier, we can see how the lawsuits fare and iron this out (or something to that effect).
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

BridgeTroll

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #123 on: June 21, 2021, 05:15:04 PM »
Yep... let the courts decide.  I don't particularly care as I am very unlikely to be involved in a riot... or near a riot.
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

icarus

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #124 on: June 21, 2021, 07:23:42 PM »
Don't forget, this language appears for each section of the law:
Quote
A person arrested for a violation of this section shall be held in custody until brought before the court for admittance to bail

No being given a summons to appear, no released on recognizance - you sit in jail until your bail hearing.

In Jacksonville, first appearances are held at 9am and 1pm 365 days a year including holidays where an initial plea is made and bail is set.  In some instances based on the offense, bail is set before first appearance.  In other words, typically, an offender is the in the pretrial detention facility for this amount of time regardless (less than 24 hours).

I cant imagine many other Florida jurisdictions are that different.

Shine

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #125 on: June 22, 2021, 09:44:15 AM »
Yet to see anyone show the language in this law that causes arrest to bystanders or threatens infringement of 1st Amendment rights. Read it three times - still looking.

JeffreyS

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #126 on: June 22, 2021, 10:20:18 AM »
Let’s remember this will be enforced by the racist group that had to empty the jail to prepare for the peaceful and ultimately well run Orange Crush event. JSO’s racist ranting and pearl clutching seems to have opened the door for several of the beaches businesses to embrace their own racism and shut out event participants.
Lenny Smash

Adam White

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #127 on: June 22, 2021, 11:29:40 AM »
Yet to see anyone show the language in this law that causes arrest to bystanders or threatens infringement of 1st Amendment rights. Read it three times - still looking.

I don't know where you studied law, but I do know that the NAACP has a number of very well-educated and experienced lawyers in the their service - and they apparently think there is reason to worry. A number of groups are taking legal action in respect of this, so it's fair to say that your opinion isn't universally shared.
“If you're going to play it out of tune, then play it out of tune properly.”

icarus

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #128 on: June 22, 2021, 11:43:11 AM »
Let’s remember this will be enforced by the racist group that had to empty the jail to prepare for the peaceful and ultimately well run Orange Crush event.

Actually the Pretrial Detention Faciity is almost always over occupied with inmates.  Cells designed to hold two men were retrofitted to hold three and the continued overflow sleeps in make shift plastic ("boat beds") in the common area.  The fire marshall typically comes through every month and decides how many people need to be either transferred to county jail or released to meet minimum safety standards at the facility.

I doubt it was emptied specifically for Orange Crush. I walked past Orange Crush on the beach and a good argument could be made it was more of a gathering (very few people).  Besides trash all over the beach, I believe the main complaint from Jax Beach officials and law enforcement was that the organizers were anything but.  No  permits were pulled; there was no communication with the administration or law enforcement and the number of participants were publicized at over 20,000 .... a few hundred showed up.

For the most part, every one I saw walking past the gathering both directions at same time as me really could have cared less who was on the beach.   

Zac T

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #129 on: June 22, 2021, 01:07:28 PM »
Let’s remember this will be enforced by the racist group that had to empty the jail to prepare for the peaceful and ultimately well run Orange Crush event.

Actually the Pretrial Detention Faciity is almost always over occupied with inmates.  Cells designed to hold two men were retrofitted to hold three and the continued overflow sleeps in make shift plastic ("boat beds") in the common area.  The fire marshall typically comes through every month and decides how many people need to be either transferred to county jail or released to meet minimum safety standards at the facility.

I doubt it was emptied specifically for Orange Crush. I walked past Orange Crush on the beach and a good argument could be made it was more of a gathering (very few people).  Besides trash all over the beach, I believe the main complaint from Jax Beach officials and law enforcement was that the organizers were anything but.  No  permits were pulled; there was no communication with the administration or law enforcement and the number of participants were publicized at over 20,000 .... a few hundred showed up.

For the most part, every one I saw walking past the gathering both directions at same time as me really could have cared less who was on the beach.   

JSO did in fact move inmates to other counties in preparation of potential mass arrests ahead of Orange Crush

Quote
The Jacksonville Sheriff's Office plans to temporarily transfer about 100 Duval County jail inmates to neighboring facilities in preparation for the possibility of numerous arrests at this weekend's Orange Crush Festival.

About 60 inmates will be housed in the St. Johns County Jail while another 30 or 40 are expected to be held in Flagler County, according to law enforcement authorities.

Sheriff's Office spokesman Christian Hancock declined to reveal specifics, but said the agency is taking precautions should trouble arise as organizers expect up to 20,000 people at the festival's events scheduled throughout Jacksonville and the Beaches.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/crime/2021/06/16/jacksonville-opens-up-jail-space-moving-out-inmates-before-festival/7714874002/

Shine

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #130 on: June 22, 2021, 01:18:42 PM »
Yet to see anyone show the language in this law that causes arrest to bystanders or threatens infringement of 1st Amendment rights. Read it three times - still looking.

I don't know where you studied law, but I do know that the NAACP has a number of very well-educated and experienced lawyers in the their service - and they apparently think there is reason to worry. A number of groups are taking legal action in respect of this, so it's fair to say that your opinion isn't universally shared.

You bring up a good point.  The NAACP did not write the lawsuit, Aaron Carter Bates in Orlando did.  He bills himself as civil rights lawyer but is listed as a personal injury attorney . . . and he is currently doing something in real-estate law.  He has also had issues with the FL Bar over compliance with licensing standards.  Go have a listen to Mr. Bates interview about the lawsuit on NPR's "Florida Roundup."  Then ask yourself if that is the lawyer you would pay to represent your interest.

Bates interview starts at about the 20 second mark:
https://www.stitcher.com/show/the-florida-roundup/episode/continued-controversy-around-floridas-anti-riot-law-addressing-climate-change-83418932

After reading the complaint, I think most, if not all the plaintiffs in this case will be denied standing.

icarus

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #131 on: June 22, 2021, 04:54:00 PM »
JSO did in fact move inmates to other counties in preparation of potential mass arrests ahead of Orange Crush

Quote
The Jacksonville Sheriff's Office plans to temporarily transfer about 100 Duval County jail inmates to neighboring facilities in preparation for the possibility of numerous arrests at this weekend's Orange Crush Festival.

About 60 inmates will be housed in the St. Johns County Jail while another 30 or 40 are expected to be held in Flagler County, according to law enforcement authorities.

Sheriff's Office spokesman Christian Hancock declined to reveal specifics, but said the agency is taking precautions should trouble arise as organizers expect up to 20,000 people at the festival's events scheduled throughout Jacksonville and the Beaches.

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/crime/2021/06/16/jacksonville-opens-up-jail-space-moving-out-inmates-before-festival/7714874002/

Wow, like I said prison transfers are common but this seems like overkill.  I wonder who made this decision someone in the Sheriff's division or in the Corrections division? I could understand FLA/GA game but the only justification I could understand would be that it was unpermitted unorganized and 20,000+ people would be arriving in town.  Even then, its overkill.


Snaketoz

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #132 on: June 22, 2021, 05:46:26 PM »
Lenny Curry, Ron DeSantis, John Rutherford, Sheriff Williams, many of our council members, legislature reps, and many others, are a huge embarrassment to our city and state.  It seems they are trying to make us like Mississippi in the 60s.  Shameful.

Charles Hunter

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #133 on: June 22, 2021, 09:25:25 PM »
Lenny Curry, Ron DeSantis, John Rutherford, Sheriff Williams, many of our council members, legislature reps, and many others, are a huge embarrassment to our city and state.  It seems they are trying to make us like Mississippi in the 60s.  Shameful.

I would argue more like the 50s than the 60s - by the 60s People Not Like Them were getting "uppity" and disrespectful.  In the 50s, everyone "knew their place".

bl8jaxnative

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #134 on: June 24, 2021, 09:20:24 AM »

Add to this people in their 20s account for 2 to 3 times more covid19 cases and.....

https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/issue-brief/latest-data-on-covid-19-vaccinations-race-ethnicity/

Overall, across these 40 states, the percent of White people who have received at least one COVID-19 vaccine dose (46%) was roughly 1.4 times higher than the rate for Black people (33%) and 1.2 times higher than the rate for Hispanic people (38%) as of June 21, 2021.