Author Topic: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?  (Read 4282 times)

MusicMan

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New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« on: April 21, 2021, 01:34:47 PM »
Question for you constitutional law experts out there:

Isn't DeSantis new "anti-mob" law regarding "riots" etc..... unconstitutional?   I thought citizens had the right to peaceably assemble without his permission.....

Charles Hunter

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2021, 01:57:11 PM »
I'm sure there will be test cases once people start getting arrested for violating it.

jaxlongtimer

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2021, 03:29:13 PM »
I'm sure there will be test cases once people start getting arrested for violating it.

Cue up the ACLU who has already registered their opposition to this bill.  Given how discretionary its enforcement will likely be, I think they will have a good case to have it ruled unconstitutional.

I wonder, at times, if DeSantis and the Legislature pass these bills to support the bevy of lawyers the State pays millions to for defending the State's ongoing desire to pass unsustainable laws.  And, how much those same lawyers recycle those fees into campaign contributions.  It has to be a cottage industry at this point.  How many Florida laws have been tossed or limited by the courts in recent years?

By the way, check out the PBS series that started last night, "Philly DA."  It's as good as any Netflix or HBO documentary series and sheds an amazing light on the various sides (police, prosecutors, defenders, offenders, victims, judges) to our justice system and law enforcement.  Every citizen should watch this to understand how complex and difficult applying justice in this country really is.  It also demonstrates how the "anti-mob" law is likely to be smoke and mirrors in the end and will just cost taxpayers millions of dollars for nothing.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2021, 03:33:09 PM by jaxlongtimer »

Charles Hunter

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2021, 03:36:04 PM »
Right, DuhSantis and his cronies in the Legislature can throw red meat to their base by passing this law; then they can wail and gnash their teeth about how those librul judges quashed the will of the people. 

itsfantastic1

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2021, 06:33:36 PM »
When an unstoppable "Stand Your Ground Law" meet an immovable "Run Over Protestors Law"...

Snaketoz

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2021, 07:44:39 PM »
Right, DuhSantis and his cronies in the Legislature can throw red meat to their base by passing this law; then they can wail and gnash their teeth about how those librul judges quashed the will of the people.
Exactly

Charles Hunter

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2021, 07:47:52 PM »
According to this article, https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/whats-in-floridas-anti-riot-bill-hb-1-12147768
Quote
On Monday, the governor signed the bill into law — albeit with some changes. The state won't grant immunity to drivers who run over protesters blocking traffic, as originally proposed. Protest organizers will no longer face racketeering charges if a demonstration turns violent.

MusicMan

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2021, 08:57:22 PM »
I cant help but wonder where we would be if our elected leaders stopped spending hours on this useless BS and instead focused on something as simple as a statewide solar initiative.

That being said, our state passed a progressive "restore felons right to vote " initiative only to have DeSantis and Co destroy it.

BridgeTroll

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2021, 06:35:28 AM »
Isn't there a difference between a riot and a peaceful assembly?  There certainly seems to be...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

simms3

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2021, 07:15:38 AM »
Isn't there a difference between a riot and a peaceful assembly?  There certainly seems to be...

What on Earth are you talking about?  ALL the protests are peaceful, duh.  Hehe (but sure we should instead focus our energy on solar power, green new deal, social "justice", social "infrastructure", etc... Especially with a conservative like DeSantis in office)

If these people haven't seen the news we've seen showing some of the things that have been going on around the country, it's honestly no point having this conversation.  Thank God for our governor; I can only imagine what state Florida would be in now with Andrew Gillum in office.  I shudder to think...
Bothering locals and trolling boards since 2005

Adam White

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2021, 07:44:27 AM »
Isn't there a difference between a riot and a peaceful assembly?  There certainly seems to be...

What on Earth are you talking about?  ALL the protests are peaceful, duh.  Hehe (but sure we should instead focus our energy on solar power, green new deal, social "justice", social "infrastructure", etc... Especially with a conservative like DeSantis in office)

If these people haven't seen the news we've seen showing some of the things that have been going on around the country, it's honestly no point having this conversation.  Thank God for our governor; I can only imagine what state Florida would be in now with Andrew Gillum in office.  I shudder to think...

What on Earth are YOU talking about?
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Chuckabear

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2021, 09:45:34 AM »
Isn't there a difference between a riot and a peaceful assembly?  There certainly seems to be...

Of course their is, but this legislation is still border line unconstitutional and parts of it may not survive legal challenge. The biggest issue is that the Right To Assembly is an individual right (De Jonge v. Oregon). Which is why we see the majority of mass arrests after a protest turns violent end up having no charges.

BridgeTroll

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2021, 11:08:00 AM »
Isn't there a difference between a riot and a peaceful assembly?  There certainly seems to be...

Of course their is, but this legislation is still border line unconstitutional and parts of it may not survive legal challenge. The biggest issue is that the Right To Assembly is an individual right (De Jonge v. Oregon). Which is why we see the majority of mass arrests after a protest turns violent end up having no charges.
No one... including DeSantis is arguing against free speech or the right to assemble.  To suggest that is silly. This appears to be an attempt to hold people accountable for the violence, looting, and vandalism that occurs when the peaceful protest devolves into a riot...

Happy to see the lawsuit... let's get this litigated and sorted out before it's needed...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Charles Hunter

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2021, 11:52:45 AM »
The concern is that it only takes a few people with bad intent to turn a peaceful demonstration into a "riot" - smash a few windows, kick a police car, don't leave when the cops tell you to, and so on - or if the police believe there is an "imminent danger" of property damage or personal injury. Here is the definition of "Riot" from the new law:
Quote
870.01
(2) A person commits a riot if he or she willfully participates in a violent public disturbance involving an assembly of three or more persons, acting with a common intent to assist each other in violent and disorderly conduct, resulting in:
(a) Injury to another person;
(b) Damage to property; or
(c) Imminent danger of injury to another person or damage to property.

Once the excrement hits the ventilator, the police won't take the time to sort out who is a "rioter" and who is a "peaceful demonstrator" - they will arrest everyone, and let the courts sort out which is who.

Those arrested will have to stay in jail until their first court appearance
Quote
870.01
(6) Except for a violation of subsection (1), a person arrested for a violation of this section shall be held in custody until brought before the court for admittance to bail in accordance with chapter 903.

Subsection (1) defines "affray" - basically fighting in public "to the terror of people".

The "bad actors" could be people on your side whose passions get the better of them, and they lose control. Or, the "bad actors" could be folks from the other side who want to cause problems to your group.  No matter, that peaceful demonstration has turned into a riot. You now have a felony arrest on your record.  Fear of arrest for something over which that have no control will deter some people from attending a peaceful protest, from exercising their First Amendment rights.

vicupstate

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Re: New 'Anti-Mob' law, is it unconstitutional?
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2021, 12:53:53 PM »
The concern is that it only takes a few people with bad intent to turn a peaceful demonstration into a "riot" - smash a few windows, kick a police car, don't leave when the cops tell you to, and so on - or if the police believe there is an "imminent danger" of property damage or personal injury. Here is the definition of "Riot" from the new law:
Quote
870.01
(2) A person commits a riot if he or she willfully participates in a violent public disturbance involving an assembly of three or more persons, acting with a common intent to assist each other in violent and disorderly conduct, resulting in:
(a) Injury to another person;
(b) Damage to property; or
(c) Imminent danger of injury to another person or damage to property.

Once the excrement hits the ventilator, the police won't take the time to sort out who is a "rioter" and who is a "peaceful demonstrator" - they will arrest everyone, and let the courts sort out which is who.

Those arrested will have to stay in jail until their first court appearance
Quote
870.01
(6) Except for a violation of subsection (1), a person arrested for a violation of this section shall be held in custody until brought before the court for admittance to bail in accordance with chapter 903.

Subsection (1) defines "affray" - basically fighting in public "to the terror of people".

  Fear of arrest for something over which that have no control will deter some people from attending a peaceful protest, from exercising their First Amendment rights.

Which is the intent of this new law. Make people that want to register their dissent scared to do so. The fact they were about to let people drive their autos into a crowd without penalty was a dead giveaway. 


   
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