Author Topic: The Jaxson asks JTA 12 questions about the U2C  (Read 9486 times)

jaxlongtimer

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Re: The Jaxson asks JTA 12 questions about the U2C
« Reply #60 on: May 02, 2021, 09:13:07 PM »
^ The "joke" plan looks better than the "real" one.  Unfortunately, the "joke" is on the taxpayers if JTA goes ahead with its "real" plan and it will cost some $400 million for the "laughs."  The question then is who will have the last "laugh"?

Charles Hunter

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Re: The Jaxson asks JTA 12 questions about the U2C
« Reply #61 on: May 05, 2021, 04:52:06 PM »
Interesting the LOGT includes nearly $400 million for the U2C. Then there is another bunch of money for the Bay Street Corridor.  The North Florida Transportation Planning Organization's (NFTPO) Long Range Transportation Plan for 2045 was adopted in November 2019.  According to Federal transportation rules, it is supposed to include all transportation capacity projects to be built by the horizon year - 2045 in this case - and be "fiscally constrained."  That means the NFTPO must make reasonable projections of anticipated revenues, and of anticipated project costs, and when developing the list of projects that will be in the adopted plan, the ledger must balance.  The adopted 2045 LRTP includes three U2C projects to be built in the 2026-2030 period: to Brooklyn/Five Points, to San Marco, and to Springfield, each costing $52.8 million - or $158.4 million in total.  Less than half the LOGT line item.

Apparently, JTA is looking to totally fund the U2C from LOGT dollars. But the Federal rules apply to any project needing Federal funds OR federal environmental approvals.  Clearly, the LRTP will have to be amended to accommodate the changes to the U2C, and more generally for the new revenue from the LOGT.

The Draft Transportation Improvement Program (TIP), the five-year implementation plan, includes $25.5 million in FY21/22 for the "Bay Street Innovation Corridor"

Link to LRTP section of the NFTPO website - http://northfloridatpo.com/planning/lrtp

and to the TIP section - http://northfloridatpo.com/planning/tip

thelakelander

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Re: The Jaxson asks JTA 12 questions about the U2C
« Reply #62 on: May 05, 2021, 06:27:53 PM »
They should seriously cut about $200 million out of the LOGT request for the U2C. That would a ton of money that could go to implement many of the bus system improvements throughout NW Jax and other areas of the city that the LRTP says won't be addressed until 2036 - 2045. Doing so still allows JTA the opportunity to play with it's U2C toy.
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marcuscnelson

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Re: The Jaxson asks JTA 12 questions about the U2C
« Reply #63 on: May 05, 2021, 08:41:11 PM »
They should seriously cut about $200 million out of the LOGT request for the U2C. That would a ton of money that could go to implement many of the bus system improvements throughout NW Jax and other areas of the city that the LRTP says won't be addressed until 2036 - 2045. Doing so still allows JTA the opportunity to play with it's U2C toy.

That screams taking a look at the "Skyway Conversion to U2C - Capital":

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Includes the rehabilitation of the Skyway infrastructure, systems and IT network and expansion of services to support the transition to autonomous vehicles.

Giving up on the infrastructure conversion (at least with gas tax funds) and either cutting it down to just the "systems and IT network" or removing that line item entirely would open up to $240 million for any of the stuff you mention and the Emerald Trail and anything else we can think of. The challenge seems to be that no one on Council wants to talk about the project list for some reason, instead squabbling about whether to pass the gas tax at all.

The adopted 2045 LRTP includes three U2C projects to be built in the 2026-2030 period: to Brooklyn/Five Points, to San Marco, and to Springfield, each costing $52.8 million - or $158.4 million in total.  Less than half the LOGT line item.

The Draft Transportation Improvement Program (TIP), the five-year implementation plan, includes $25.5 million in FY21/22 for the "Bay Street Innovation Corridor"

I'm pretty sure the LRTP only includes the "Skyway Conversion to U2C - Neighborhood Extensions" part of the LOGT:

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Downtown service expansion of Skyway providing neighborhood Circulators through use of autonomous vehicle network to five key areas:
West Corridor ‐ access to the Riverside and Five Points neighborhoods, as well as the popular Riverside Arts Market and growing Brooklyn neighborhood;
East Corridor ‐ extending eastward along Bay Street, these stations will annex the burgeoning Shipyards district and the popular Sports Complex with the downtown core;
North Corridor ‐ serving the revitalizing historic Springfield area, UF Health Center and VA Outpatient Clinic, the North Corridor would provide more access to integral health‐related resources and services;
South/Medical Complex Corridor ‐ Historic San Marco, which has long been a destination for those seeking a live/work/play location; and
Southbank Corridor ‐ the Southbank Corridor which has some of the greatest growth potential and expanded service will meet the transportation needs of future employees, residents and visitors.

That's listed on the LOGT as $131,890,000, but honestly I don't buy that at all. Especially given that the "East Corridor" is supposed to be the Bay Street Innovation Corridor, so it shouldn't be on that list anyway.
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jaxlongtimer

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Re: The Jaxson asks JTA 12 questions about the U2C
« Reply #64 on: May 05, 2021, 10:45:16 PM »
Uber just came out with earnings and appeared to be thrilled to be out of the AV business.  This is in addition to Lyft doing the same as reported in my prior post reposted here for convenience.  These companies obviously invested hundreds of millions and billions to try and figure out AV and gave up.  But JTA is going to do it for tens of millions after subtracting hard costs from the $379 to 400+ million?  Really?
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Uber losses dramatically improve thanks to sale of self-driving unit

...Overall, Uber’s net loss was $108 million, a tremendous improvement from a $968 million loss in its fourth quarter of 2020. But that was largely due to a $1.6 billion gain from the sale of its self-driving unit, ATG....

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/05/uber-q1-2021-earnings.html

Lyft giving up on perfecting AV technology.  Selling out to Toyota.  Quotes indicate we have a long way to go to full AV's.  But, maybe JTA knows something the rest of the world doesn't. ;D

A few quotes:
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Lyft is the latest company to abandon the expensive development of AVs

Lyft is selling its autonomous vehicle division to a subsidiary of Toyota — the latest in a series of acquisitions that is seeing the world of self-driving cars grow increasingly smaller...

...The deal, which is expected to close in the third quarter of 2021, brings to an end Lyft’s four-year journey toward developing and deploying its own self-driving cars. The company follows its rival Uber in off-loading its costly autonomous vehicle division in a bid to stop losing so much money...

...Lyft launched its Level 5 division in 2017 with the bold claim that by 2021, “a majority” of its rides would take place in autonomous vehicles. The company hired hundreds of engineers to staff a 50,000-square-foot facility in Palo Alto, California. A year later, Lyft acquired the UK-based augmented reality startup Blue Vision Labs for a reported $72 million in the hopes of accelerating its efforts.

But the prediction that most of Lyft’s rides would take place in AVs never came to pass. In fact, despite some technical successes, autonomous vehicles remain very far away from any kind of mass adoption. Most AVs on the road today are still test vehicles, with most of the major players refusing to commit to a timeline for commercialization...

...Last year, Toyota broke ground on its “Woven City,” the 175-acre site of a former car factory in Japan. The automaker hopes to transform it into a “prototype city of the future” where it can test autonomous vehicles, innovative street design, smart home technology, robotics, and new mobility products on a population of real people who would live there full time.

https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/26/22404406/toyota-lyft-autonomous-vehicle-acquisition-amount-deal