Author Topic: Skyway expansion in Jacksonville at stake in proposed gas tax increase  (Read 5929 times)

thelakelander

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Re: Skyway expansion in Jacksonville at stake in proposed gas tax increase
« Reply #120 on: April 16, 2021, 06:21:47 AM »
I was told that they only plan to go up to Level 4 and that they believe they'll reach that benchmark in a year.

Yes, there's remote supervision. However, I suspect many will feel uncomfortable riding in a personal vehicle like pod with unknown and random people. If you think that the Skyway cars are small, you haven't seen anything yet.
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thelakelander

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Re: Skyway expansion in Jacksonville at stake in proposed gas tax increase
« Reply #121 on: April 16, 2021, 07:27:49 AM »


After living through this from about start to… wherever it's going, it makes me realize why so many people are so cynical about our city's future. This level of institutional failure in developing a practical urban transportation system is just… stunning. For those that went through it, is this what it was like during the initial BRT proposal?

That initial BRT was frustrating as well but at least it was a common technology. Ultimately,  we were proven correct that it was a $1 billion plan to outdated destinations and not a $600 million project. We successfully built enough influence to lead it to the Flyer you see today, as well as get the JRTC scaled down and get JTA to conduct streetcar and commuter rail feasibility studies. We also supported the modernization and extension of the Skyway in 2015 buy never imagined that would lead to selected AV push. This is way past a fiscally responsible and no frills approach to improving transit locally.
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bl8jaxnative

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Re: Skyway expansion in Jacksonville at stake in proposed gas tax increase
« Reply #122 on: April 16, 2021, 08:08:58 AM »

Speaking of small Skyway cars

"
The JTA Transit Concept and Alternatives Review (TCAR) Phase 1 study stated that the current Skyway maximum capacity was 56 passengers per train.
"

I can not take any engineer seriously that claims that 2 of those lil pods with 4 stripper poles can carry anything more than 1/2 of that claimed 56.

BridgeTroll

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Re: Skyway expansion in Jacksonville at stake in proposed gas tax increase
« Reply #123 on: April 16, 2021, 08:29:34 AM »
I think looking through a lot of these documents it's clear that at some point this all became more about "the first autonomous vehicle network in America" than about "fostering Downtown vibrancy". It's truly insane that after getting the cost estimates they apparently never stopped for even a moment to reconsider that maybe this wasn't the most cost-effective option anymore. Or that it was never actually a guarantee that the technology would truly be ready on time, or at all. Or that experimenting with vehicle technology isn't actually their job. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills watching all this happen.

Which is why I can't personally support the gas tax.

I'd happily pay triple the gas tax if I had confidence that JTA had a good long-term plan for their half of the money.

Instead, JTA's tripling-down on a losing proposition so we can all pretend like we're Epcot.

Cool.

Cool cool cool.

At some point local government needs to show they are competent stewards of the people's money. My mind is not completely made up but as of now I would vote no to a gas tax...
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marcuscnelson

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Re: Skyway expansion in Jacksonville at stake in proposed gas tax increase
« Reply #124 on: April 16, 2021, 01:05:55 PM »
I was told that they only plan to go up to Level 4 and that they believe they'll reach that benchmark in a year.

…has anyone done that? Like, in the world?

I'm looking and GM has just barely begun testing Level 4 in urban environments as of a few months ago. And they're not asking for half a billion dollars from taxpayers. JTA thinks they're going to have that fully operational within a year? Enough to build an entire system with taxpayer money?

I can not take any engineer seriously that claims that 2 of those lil pods with 4 stripper poles can carry anything more than 1/2 of that claimed 56.

JTA's response to that:

Quote
The JTA’s fleet will have the ability to platoon, and will leverage an entire ecosystem of related technology to move customers more efficiently than the current Skyway trains can, or a single rideshare vehicle can.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

marcuscnelson

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Re: Skyway expansion in Jacksonville at stake in proposed gas tax increase
« Reply #125 on: April 16, 2021, 01:06:09 PM »
Also saw this interview of Ari Jolly:

Quote
"There will be no more rail, there will be no more of that middle, the center line, you know, that you have to have for these rail cars to hold on to. It's to be rehabilitated. It's to turn it basically into a road."

Maybe it's just me but this feels like a fundamental misunderstanding of transportation not based on the personal car. It sounds to me like the same logic used for Elon Musk's Loop in Vegas.

Quote
Jolly also points out the U2C represents where the future of transportation is headed. “Everything points to the fact that the concept of autonomous vehicles is here to come and it's going to replace vehicles as we know it.”

…does it?
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

WAJAS

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Re: Skyway expansion in Jacksonville at stake in proposed gas tax increase
« Reply #126 on: April 16, 2021, 02:52:38 PM »
Also saw this interview of Ari Jolly:

Quote
"There will be no more rail, there will be no more of that middle, the center line, you know, that you have to have for these rail cars to hold on to. It's to be rehabilitated. It's to turn it basically into a road."

Maybe it's just me but this feels like a fundamental misunderstanding of transportation not based on the personal car. It sounds to me like the same logic used for Elon Musk's Loop in Vegas.

Quote
Jolly also points out the U2C represents where the future of transportation is headed. “Everything points to the fact that the concept of autonomous vehicles is here to come and it's going to replace vehicles as we know it.”

…does it?
Autonomous vehicles are the future, but I think their timeline might be a bit short.