Author Topic: A new look for RD River City Brewing project  (Read 2106 times)

thelakelander

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Re: A new look for RD River City Brewing project
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2021, 01:04:51 PM »
There will not be a new RC brewery. The business will close.
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DTWD_NW904

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Re: A new look for RD River City Brewing project
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2021, 02:47:37 PM »
I don't like the flat roof personally, I think the other one definitely reads more resort, but I didn't think that was a bad thing.  This is Florida after all.  I'm not a fan of all the lack of character of rooflines in most residential buildings going up lately around the country.  Something to break up the monotony in the skyline gave it a little more interest. Plus with Jacksonville demolishing uniquely shaped architecture it was a welcome addition to me.

I honestly never understood why people had a problem with the "resort look".

tufsu1

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Re: A new look for RD River City Brewing project
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2021, 10:44:48 PM »
I just saw something in the renderings that I don't like which is the location of the pool right along the riverwalk facing DT. I don't think that's the best use of the area and should be opened to more public greenspace and/or outdoor seating with a restaurant or something.

this is a similar design to what Related built on Tampa's riverfront

thelakelander

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Re: A new look for RD River City Brewing project
« Reply #18 on: March 18, 2021, 05:52:48 AM »
It should be better. There will be a restaurant with lots of outdoor seating overlooking the river and Friendship Fountain.
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jaxlongtimer

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Re: A new look for RD River City Brewing project
« Reply #19 on: April 13, 2021, 12:55:40 AM »
City asked for more money as this project shrinks in size by 33% and the developer backs out of repairing one of the docks.  While I am glad it is shrinking in size (really wouldn't mind if it died and the land stayed as green space), I don't understand why the City should put up more money as a result.  I assumed it shrank this much to keep the rising costs in line so why the need for more City money on top of that.  Not buying the developer's sob story and already think the City's now 18% subsidy (about $81,000/apartment!) is too much.

Once again, the City is in over its head negotiating these deals.  It appears these developers do bait and switch once they have the City on the initial hook.  The developers are supposed to be highly experienced and educated in these projects so I am amazed how often they say, "oops,' off by millions so we need more help.  Everyone of them seems to come back for more later and the City always caves.  What happened to developers assuming risks in return for their rewards?

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/miami-developer-requests-dollar1-09-million-incentives-boost

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...The larger tax refund would bring the city’s total investment in the proposed Southbank apartments to $18,274,679, according to a DIA staff report released April 9.

Related Group estimates its plan to demolish the River City Brewing Co. restaurant at 835 Museum Circle and redevelop the site will cost $99.16 million, the report says.

That’s up $6.32 million from the $92.32 million the developer projected in November.

Related Group also told DIA officials it will reduce the number of apartments from 335 to 227 and decline to repair one of the docks at the site.

Both changes are allowed under the initial agreement approved by the DIA board last year....



thelakelander

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Re: A new look for RD River City Brewing project
« Reply #20 on: April 13, 2021, 07:03:41 AM »
If +100 units are being chopped out, does that change the site plan? I wonder if that allows for a larger setback from the river, which was a big concern of the Riverfront Parks Now types?
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CityLife

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Re: A new look for RD River City Brewing project
« Reply #21 on: April 13, 2021, 08:44:54 AM »
If +100 units are being chopped out, does that change the site plan? I wonder if that allows for a larger setback from the river, which was a big concern of the Riverfront Parks Now types?

The article doesn't indicate the design is changing. They probably lost a few units during the minor redesign, but the drop in units may be a result of them increasing the the mix of units to have more 2 or 3 bedroom units. I don't know what the original unit mix was supposed to be, but having a greater allocation of larger units might make the number of total bedrooms a wash. Plus, units with more bedrooms are more affordable for young professionals or service industry employees. So it could end up being a good thing.

The developers are simply asking for a larger REV grant (tax abatement) based on higher assumed construction cost and a subsequent higher tax assessment. No real problems for me on that. The real problem with this project is the scale and mass is atrocious and should have never even come forward for review. However, the project is too far along for the developers and architects to make major changes, so the City will be stuck with a lemon.

Knowing how public sector planning and development works, it wouldn't surprise me if the DIA was not able to spend as much time on this project as they would have liked due to the high profile nature of Lot J and the sheer amount of work involved with it. I've seen so many things skate by or slip through the cracks, while there are "bigger fish to fry".
« Last Edit: April 13, 2021, 08:56:10 AM by CityLife »

thelakelander

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Re: A new look for RD River City Brewing project
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2021, 09:17:24 AM »
It's not the prettiest project but I'd also argue that the scale and massing says more about our policies that shape these projects, then the developers trying to make market rate projects within them. The request doesn't give me heartburn.
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CityLife

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Re: A new look for RD River City Brewing project
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2021, 09:51:43 AM »
It's not the prettiest project but I'd also argue that the scale and massing says more about our policies that shape these projects, then the developers trying to make market rate projects within them. The request doesn't give me heartburn.
Market rate projects? They are asking for $18 million in incentives...

I'm sure the downtown policies could be refined a bit to eliminate the possibility for staff error, but the DIA still had plenty of ammunition in the downtown code to make the developers bring forward a better project. Let's look at Section 656.361.6.2 (Private Realm Regulations)

Section C. Building Massing and Form:
Purpose and Intent: It is important that future buildings are designed so that their scale and massing does not overwhelm the Public Realm and make it unattractive and inhospitable. The modulation of a block and the massing of buildings significantly impacts how the size of a building is perceived by a person at street level.

Subsection: Create a transition in bulk in scale
DIA's Finding: The design includes areas of relief along the facades incorporating landscaped courtyards and upper-level terraces which create a transition in the bulk of the building.

The DIA could have EASILY called out the fact that the east elevation of this is roughly 2/3rds the length of the Pentagon and 3 stories taller and that the west elevation isn't much better. Knowing good urban design, there is nothing anybody can say to convince me that this building shouldn't have been broken up into two buildings to create more pedestrian friendly blocks (and a view corridor to the river looking east/west) and make it less bulky.

The end result will still be good for Downtown, but it could have been much better. Especially when the City is giving the developer $18 million.



thelakelander

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Re: A new look for RD River City Brewing project
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2021, 10:00:11 AM »
It's not the prettiest project but I'd also argue that the scale and massing says more about our policies that shape these projects, then the developers trying to make market rate projects within them. The request doesn't give me heartburn.
Market rate projects? They are asking for $18 million in incentives...

Yes, the project does not happen without incentives, if you want stuff like structured parking as opposed to the Texas style donuts with lots of surface parking to make the numbers work. That's the state of DT Jax today unfortunately.

Quote
I'm sure the downtown policies could be refined a bit to eliminate the possibility for staff error, but the DIA still had plenty of ammunition in the downtown code to make the developers bring forward a better project. Let's look at Section 656.361.6.2 (Private Realm Regulations)

Section C. Building Massing and Form:
Purpose and Intent: It is important that future buildings are designed so that their scale and massing does not overwhelm the Public Realm and make it unattractive and inhospitable. The modulation of a block and the massing of buildings significantly impacts how the size of a building is perceived by a person at street level.

Subsection: Create a transition in bulk in scale
DIA's Finding: The design includes areas of relief along the facades incorporating landscaped courtyards and upper-level terraces which create a transition in the bulk of the building.

The DIA could have EASILY called out the fact that the east elevation of this is roughly 2/3rds the length of the Pentagon and 3 stories taller and that the west elevation isn't much better. Knowing good urban design, there is nothing anybody can say to convince me that this building shouldn't have been broken up into two buildings to create more pedestrian friendly blocks (and a view corridor to the river looking east/west) and make it less bulky.

I don't disagree. DIA could have likely done a lot of things. I doubt that happened though and would not be surprised is some of the opposite took place.

Quote
The end result will still be good for Downtown, but it could have been much better. Especially when the City is giving the developer $18 million.

No argument from me here. I just place more responsibility of the outcome on the public side.
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vicupstate

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Re: A new look for RD River City Brewing project
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2021, 10:53:59 AM »
With fewer units and more money, the city should expect a smaller footprint (more floors) and a better design.  This is a very key parcel with a lot of visibility.

Frankly I would tell them to wait until MOSH moves and use that site instead. Retail on the ground floor, offices for the next 7-10 and apartments on top of that in a slender, tall building.   
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jaxjags

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Re: A new look for RD River City Brewing project
« Reply #26 on: April 14, 2021, 10:52:48 AM »

Appears someone has a typo error on the number of apartment reductions. It looks like the DR article says 337 t0 325 not 225. Can someone please double check this.

CityLife

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Re: A new look for RD River City Brewing project
« Reply #27 on: April 14, 2021, 11:25:05 AM »

Appears someone has a typo error on the number of apartment reductions. It looks like the DR article says 337 t0 325 not 225. Can someone please double check this.

I believe the original DR article may have had the typo. Jaxlongtimer's post copied the 227 directly from the article and I recall the article also saying that when I read it yesterday.

Thanks for clarifying that.

thelakelander

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Re: A new look for RD River City Brewing project
« Reply #28 on: April 14, 2021, 11:39:16 AM »
^I recall seeing the 225 in the article yesterday too. A drop from 337 to 325 isn't a big deal, IMO.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali