Author Topic: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap  (Read 3238 times)

Florida Power And Light

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 170
Re: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2021, 09:18:58 PM »
Nate Monroe nailed this one about a month back.

Curry, Hughes, and the OGC made no friends throughout this process.

And the right to pay back the grant and develop the land never existed in the feds’ opinion (hence the payback bill being revoked), even though that language actually is in the original agreement from the 80s.

Worth Repeating

fieldafm

  • Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4448
Re: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2021, 07:57:49 AM »
Quote
Development as it relates to the Jags is toast now.

I think that's a stretch, with all due respect. There is plenty of land to develop. All of this below is owned by the City, and none of these parcels are parkland. This land, as with Lot J, requires remediation.





The biggest difference between the actual Shipyards property vs Lot J/Metro Park.. is that the latter is directly next to Dailys Place.  In that respect, lots M, N and P to the East of Lot J (shown below, essentially the old Coliseum site) as well as the current practice fields... are all developable parcels that don't have breached slur walls underground spreading contaminants into a retention pond.  None of those options also require additional tens of millions of dollars to recreate a park (planting grass along the river does not count as 'parkspace').






I also don't read that article and come to the conclusion that the final word on Metro Park has been written. The article and informal email chain only emphasizes what we already knew to be true.... that any effort to swap Met Park faces many uphill battles.

Mike Mendenhall provides a little more color than the JBJ article, which seemed like a rushed product to get onto the web first. 

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/national-park-service-rejected-shipyards-swap-for-metropolitan-park-in-december

Not surprisingly, floating ideas about park land swaps without providing much in the way of details- like a formal plan to fully remediate, amenitize and fund your proposed park space... doesn't impress the National Park Service. 

The informal emails are par for the course for Curry's administration's entire strategy towards Downtown... tear lots of things down, make references to vague and unvetted future plans, and worry about figuring out how to do any of it later (or never).   

fieldafm

  • Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4448
Re: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2021, 08:11:44 AM »
Perhaps this only interests me... but it should be noted that the original Shipyards proposal almost two decades ago included 16 acres of park space. That would be 16 acres of new park space, to go along with the 24 acres that already existed/exists at MetroPark.





Been saying it for years, but Columbus Commons should be the model for the Shipyards.  The public pays for the public space, master plans the site, and then sells individual parcels to developers that build to the uses and design conformity within your master plan. Basically, the public is the master developer who gets the site ready to market and sells the land to individual developers.  The model for the Shipyards has always been- Give the land to the Jaguars (who won the RFP in 2015, not one shovel in the ground almost 6 years later), LandMar (bankrupt) or TriLegacy (bankrupt) as the master developer, the City gives the master developer the money to get the site ready to market, and the master developer then sells individual parcels to other developers.  Its an all or nothing approach, that has failed at least twice.... and maybe/maybe not a third time.

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/getting-it-right-columbus-commons/

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32006
    • Modern Cities
Re: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2021, 08:36:48 AM »
Definitely agree with fieldafm on Columbus Commons. In the time we've talked about what to do with the Shipyards, they've had a functional mall run out of business, close, get demolished, recreated as a park with building pads and seen all of those pads incrementally developed with mixed-use infill. This stuff isn't rocket science. Jax just needs to get out of its own way.

As for the National Park Service, like Lot J, this process of swapping land is another time consuming, money wasting thing. There's nothing wrong with leaving Metropolitan Park where it is and developing on other properties around it. If there's one thing we have in abundance in and around downtown, it's empty, city owned property.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

fieldafm

  • Editor
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4448
Re: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2021, 08:52:03 AM »
Definitely agree with fieldafm on Columbus Commons. In the time we've talked about what to do with the Shipyards, they've had a functional mall run out of business, close, get demolished, recreated as a park with building pads and seen all of those pads incrementally developed with mixed-use infill. This stuff isn't rocket science. Jax just needs to get out of its own way.

As for the National Park Service, like Lot J, this process of swapping land is another time consuming, money wasting thing. There's nothing wrong with leaving Metropolitan Park where it is and developing on other properties around it. If there's one thing we have in abundance in and around downtown, it's empty, city owned property.

I mean, its not like this conversation is anything new.  It's only another decade and a few more Mayoral administrations to waste.  The redevelopment of the Shipyards has been a discussion that occupies time and money since basically 2000. The push to drive development and public money away from the walkable core of the City and towards the Sports District has been going on since basically 2008. When you step back and ponder on that for a moment... that's a lot of time and money spent spinning wheels. Both time and money are valuable... perhaps even more of a valuable commodity then some empty land?  Maybe its best to spend both on something that won't drag on for another 20 years?

https://www.metrojacksonville.com/article/2010-may-creating-synergy-history-the-landing-or-metro-park
« Last Edit: January 21, 2021, 08:53:45 AM by fieldafm »

jaxlongtimer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 857
Re: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2021, 11:14:10 AM »
Anyone note the date (December 2nd) the City was notified that the NPS wasn't biting on a swap?  This was during the intense discussions about Lot J and when the Jag's were dangling the Four Seasons at Metro Park as another development bonus.  It doesn't appear the Curry administration shared the info before the Lot J vote.  I wonder what impact it would have had if the Council knew this very relevant development.  More Curry manipulations?  It appears an investigation by the Council is in order.

Quote
The Florida Department of Environmental Protection notified city attorney John Sawyer on Dec. 2 that the National Park Service will not consider the Shipyards as replacement property for Metropolitan Park.

“I wanted to let you know that NPS has responded to the City’s proposal of the Shipyards as replacement property for the Metro Park conversion,” department Land and Recreation Grants Program Manager Rebecca Wood wrote to Sawyer, governmental operations department chief of the city Office of General Counsel.

“NPS has reiterated that the purpose of reviewing the additional properties identified by the City thus far was because the Shipyards will not be considered as replacement property for Metro Park,” Wood wrote. “Please let me know if the City has any additional properties to review.”

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/national-park-service-rejected-shipyards-swap-for-metropolitan-park-in-december

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32006
    • Modern Cities
Re: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2021, 10:27:29 AM »
Quote
Shad Khan’s development company asks for Shipyards site access

The Downtown Investment Authority board will consider allowing Jacksonville Jaguars owner Shad Khan’s development company access to the Shipyards property as he considers the site for a Four Seasons hotel and mixed-use development.

According to the Feb. 17 meeting agenda packet, the DIA board is scheduled to vote on a resolution to give Iguana Investments Florida LLC access to the city-owned riverfront property for at least six months to conduct environmental and geotechnical site due diligence.

The board documents were released Feb. 10.


https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/shad-khans-development-company-asks-for-shipyards-site-access
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

marcuscnelson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1066
  • Gen Z - Tired of the status quo
Re: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2021, 01:44:11 PM »
Don't see why not. Not like anything else is going on at the Shipyards.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

vicupstate

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3509
Re: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2021, 01:51:04 PM »
Don't see why not. Not like anything else is going on at the Shipyards.

I agree. I would hope the findings are shared with DIA though.
"The problem with quotes on the internet is you can never be certain they're authentic." - Abraham Lincoln

acme54321

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2573
Re: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2021, 02:10:54 PM »
I thought curry said the Jags were walking away if the lot J deal didn't go through?  8)

Charles Hunter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3247
Re: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2021, 02:32:32 PM »
Seems they should be doing environmental investigation of the Shipyards, and not Metro Park.

landfall

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 43
Re: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2021, 03:53:14 PM »
The annual state of the franchise is soon isn't it? Guess you've gotta talk about something off the field....

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 32006
    • Modern Cities
Re: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2021, 06:49:01 PM »
^Sounds like more renderings are on the way! I'm excited to see what the latest will be.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Papa33

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 188
Re: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2021, 08:51:32 PM »
Renderings.  Schmenderings.  There is some excitement, for sure.  But tempered by what we ended up with in the few projects that came to fruition.

marcuscnelson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1066
  • Gen Z - Tired of the status quo
Re: Metro Park: Nat'l Park Srvc Says "No" to Swap
« Reply #29 on: February 12, 2021, 06:53:14 PM »
Jaguars: Four Seasons plan doesn't depend on Met Park land swap

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2021/02/12/jaguars-four-seasons-hotel-plan-doesnt-depend-met-park-land-swap/6741376002/

Quote
Jaguars owner Shad Khan's ongoing plans for a Four Seasons Hotel and medical office building do not depend on the city gaining federal approval for a land swap that would allow private development on a chunk of Metropolitan Park, the team says.

"Our belief in downtown Jacksonville and its potential hasn’t changed, nor has our commitment to playing a leading role in helping downtown realize its full potential," the Jaguars said in a statement Friday. "We are currently working through the DIA process regarding the Shipyards development. The Shipyards development, including the Four Seasons Hotel and Residences and medical office, are not dependent on the Met Park land swap."
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey