Brightline, Disney Reach Deal on High-Speed Station at Disney Springs

[marcuscnelson]

Not to mention that said line would be true, electrified HSR instead of diesel HrSR, and even then only barely reaching 125 on part of the route.

Problem with that is, is DeSantis any different from Scott in this regard? Brightline existing at all might change things, but I question their lobbying power to prevent the Governor from refusing federal money again.

[thelakelander]

I think 125 mph is fine for Florida. Especially the Tampa - Orlando link.  It's only 80 miles or so between the cities and with stops at Disney and Lakeland, so it likely won't hit 125 anyway. That corridor is better suited for commuter rail, IMO.

Like Scott, DeSantis can be a wildcard but no one is asking the state to operate HSR now. I can't imagine the state blocking Brightline or Amtrak from taking federal money.

[Tacachale]

Oh yeah. If not for that, the Tampa-Orlando-Miami line would have been done by now. Brightline, Amtrak or whatever will make it to Jax a lot faster if the new administration throws that type of money into Florida.

And if Florida accepts it...

[thelakelander]

I was thinking from the perspective of money being given to speed up the implementation of Brightline or Amtrak. In the case of Brightline, technically we've already accepted by allowing them to operate on public ROW (Beachline and I-4).

[marcuscnelson]

We've talked plenty of times about there being multiple levels of service. You don't have to hit every stop every time, and I imagine Brightline is thinking about that in terms of their South Florida route once they have Aventura and Boca Raton open. There's a lot of room for rail in a state of our size.

One thing I noticed in Brightline's press release:

The design concept for the proposed station at Disney Springs at Walt Disney World Resort includes a lobby on the ground level, passenger facilities and an upper level train platform.

So the tracks will be elevated.

[thelakelander]

We've talked plenty of times about there being multiple levels of service. You don't have to hit every stop every time, and I imagine Brightline is thinking about that in terms of their South Florida route once they have Aventura and Boca Raton open. There's a lot of room for rail in a state of our size.

Yes, but we also need the ridership to support express, limited stop service between....say DT Tampa and Orlando's airport. The majority of riders on that route are likely going between Orlando's airport and Disney and not directly to Tampa. The last meeting I attended that discussed Brightline, they mentioned that the Tampa link projected low ridership. Disney was needed to make it more viable. There's also a good chance it will be phased (ex. Airport to Disney and then Disney to Tampa). In terms of max speed, we're not losing much maxing out at 125mph vs 150mph.

From what I understand in South Florida, Aventura and Boca Raton will be mainline Brightline stops while the other new stations will be operated as commuter rail:

Today, the Miami-Dade County Commission unanimously approved an access fee paving the way for new commuter rail system on the Brightline/Florida East Coast Railway corridor. The system would connect the northeast region of Miami-Dade County with possible station locations at 151st Street (FIU), 123rd Street (North Miami), El Portal, the Design District, Wynwood and Little Haiti. The system would be interoperable with Brightline’s Aventura and MiamiCentral stations and would ultimately connect with Metrorail, Metromover and Tri-Rail. This project, which has been studied for decades, will provide reliable, convenient transportation to one of the densest areas of Miami-Dade County.

https://www.gobrightline.com/press-room/brightline-and-miami-dade-county-agree-access-fee-new-commuter-rail-system

One thing I noticed in Brightline's press release:

The design concept for the proposed station at Disney Springs at Walt Disney World Resort includes a lobby on the ground level, passenger facilities and an upper level train platform.

So the tracks will be elevated.

The Disney Springs station will be adjacent to the I-4/SR 536 interchange. The tracks will have to clear I-4 and all of the bridges associated with that interchange.

[bl8jaxnative]

...say DT Tampa and Orlando's airport. The majority of riders on that route are likely going between Orlando's airport and Disney and not directly to Tampa. The last meeting I attended that discussed Brightline, they mentioned that the Tampa link projected low ridership. Disney was needed to make it more viable. There's also a good chance it will be phased (ex. Airport to Disney and then Disney to Tampa). In terms of max speed, we're not losing much maxing out at 125mph vs 150mph.

The lack of ridership between Orlando and Tampa was a key killer for previous HSR project on the I4 corridor.

[thelakelander]

^I've always thought that if there was a more open approach to upgrading passenger rail between Orlando and Tampa, an Amtrak Pacific Surfliner type corridor service would be more appropriate. The CSX line that Amtrak runs on today travels through where people along the I-4 corridor live. Other than Disney, the rest of I-4 is pretty much suburban sprawl and Green Swamp. There's not much ridership and growth opportunity to pull from on the path to DT Tampa.

[tufsu1]

The lack of ridership between Orlando and Tampa was a key killer for previous HSR project on the I4 corridor.

Not exactly true. The bigger technical issue was that ridership projections between Miami and Orlando were higher, but the implementation costs for that segment were far more.  That said, the project was killed primarily because it didn't fit the philosophical belief of Rick Scott and his advisors.