Brightline, Disney Reach Deal on High-Speed Station at Disney Springs

[marcuscnelson]

Right, basically what I said. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it'd require substantial public support and a friendly enough Tallahassee to approve it. With the people there now, it's more likely we'd end up with a brand new turnpike between Gainesville and Jacksonville than rail service.

Brightline on CSX tracks won't be happening. Once we get past Tampa, it will likely be nothing or Cocoa to Jax on the FEC.

Assuming they're thinking about/working on Jax by the end of the decade (which is likely, given AAF's original support for it and how Tampa will likely be done by 2025-26), they have spitballed before about eventually expanding towards Atlanta. I don't know how realistic that is, but it's been talked about.

[thelakelander]

With Biden in and Trump out, it will be interesting to see what happens with federal support for Amtrak and other transit systems. There could be some long proposed, but indefinitely delayed projects end up receiving funding over the next four years. I assume they'll be reallocating the billions being spent on a wall.

[bl8jaxnative]

a) Congress controls the purse strings.  That's where money for choo-choo trains comes from.  Is there enough support there to do much?   

b) Disney + Brighline is exciting but once you get past the excitement, there's nothing concrete ( note the pun #rimshot ) there.

[bl8jaxnative]

There's no way rail is ever coming back into the heart of Gainesville.  The only line left within 20 miles of town is the CSX spur from Alschua and it only goes to 16th St.  The rail network in town has been heavily converted to rail trails, which are a huge asset to the city, which isn't going to give those up.

In Minneapolis, they had a rail trail that from day one was done under the premise of adding rail on the corridor someday.  That had a shit storm of resistance, opposition and lawsuits to the southwest LRT project.   It nearly killed it.

And that's for a place where from day one they said the trail was temp.  I can't imagine the resistance to removing what was supposed to be permanent trail.

[thelakelander]

Regarding commuter rail to Gainesville, I believe the cost to acquire the existing CSX rail corridor and construct Sunrail ended up being over $1 billion. That's a 61-mile corridor that was getting a little over 6,000 riders a day before Covid. The Skyway is 2.5 miles, came in at $184 million and was averaging around 5,000 riders a day in dead DT Jax before JTA shut down the convention center line to construct the JRTC. I don't know in what world, one can logically advocate for +71 mile, new rail corridor (there is no direct existing rail corridor between the cities) to Gainesville from Jax, but view the Skyway as a complete boondoggle.

[marcuscnelson]

As I said, it'd be really cool if we could do it. But yeah, it's likely not financially sustainable (not like a new expressway would be either), it would take an absolutely massive amount of public support, and Tallahassee is too hostile to rail to do it.

I remember that the old HSRA Vision Plan called for a corridor basically alongside I-75 through Ocala and Gainesville:



But I seriously doubt Brightline is truly interested in following that map. Once they've connected basically all the major cities along the FEC line and to Tampa, it's unclear what they'd really want to do at that point.

[thelakelander]

This has been Brightline/All Aboard Florida's most extensive vision map for Florida released to date:



What may work for a Jax, Gainesville connection is an express bus with BRT-lite type stops along the way. A good example is the bus line that runs between Denver's Union Station and Boulder. From the JRTC to Gainesville, it would be a pretty straight shot down I-10/US 301/SR 24.

[thelakelander]

a) Congress controls the purse strings.  That's where money for choo-choo trains comes from.  Is there enough support there to do much?

 

We'll see how things play out. Here's Amtrak Joe's dreams for passenger rail investment during his term:

https://www.theurbanist.org/2020/11/09/amtrak-joes-win-elevates-high-speed-rail-hopes/

[Tacachale]

a) Congress controls the purse strings.  That's where money for choo-choo trains comes from.  Is there enough support there to do much?

 

We'll see how things play out. Here's Amtrak Joe's dreams for passenger rail investment during his term:

https://www.theurbanist.org/2020/11/09/amtrak-joes-win-elevates-high-speed-rail-hopes/

Nice. Still has to deal with the Senate on that infrastructure bill, though.

[thelakelander]

The results of that GA runoff will determine what dealing with the Senate will amount too. Regardless, the priorities will change from what they were the last four years. It will be interesting if he can build off of what they pushed during the Obama administration and what that means for Brightline and Amtrak in Florida.

[tufsu1]

a) Congress controls the purse strings.  That's where money for choo-choo trains comes from.  Is there enough support there to do much?

 

We'll see how things play out. Here's Amtrak Joe's dreams for passenger rail investment during his term:

https://www.theurbanist.org/2020/11/09/amtrak-joes-win-elevates-high-speed-rail-hopes/

Nice. Still has to deal with the Senate on that infrastructure bill, though.

yes suddenly the GOP will care about deficits again

[thelakelander]

Lol and how many billions were dropped on that wall?

[Tacachale]

Lol and how many billions were dropped on that wall?

Lol, exactly.

[MusicMan]

Remember when Rick Scott turned down $2.4 billion for high speed rail in Florida? 

[thelakelander]

Oh yeah. If not for that, the Tampa-Orlando-Miami line would have been done by now. Brightline, Amtrak or whatever will make it to Jax a lot faster if the new administration throws that type of money into Florida.