Author Topic: The RCBC debate shows Downtown needs a master plan  (Read 1978 times)

thelakelander

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The RCBC debate shows Downtown needs a master plan
« on: October 19, 2020, 08:06:07 AM »
Quote


Developers listened to public feedback and added a new restaurant to the River City Brewing Company development. This move turned a loss into a net gain – but it wouldn't have been necessary if Jacksonville had a publicly vetted master plan for what we hope to see Downtown.


Read More: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/the-rcbc-debate-shows-downtown-needs-a-master-plan/
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Charles Hunter

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Re: The RCBC debate shows Downtown needs a master plan
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2020, 08:26:35 AM »
A huge "YES!!!" this needs to happen, and soon.  As suggested in the editorial, development of a Downtown Master Plan must include significant public participation.

Bill Hoff

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Re: The RCBC debate shows Downtown needs a master plan
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2020, 01:41:06 PM »
Can we talk about the positives of NOT having a plan?

Literally anything could happen! Who knows what lays ahead! It's exciting!

marcuscnelson

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Re: The RCBC debate shows Downtown needs a master plan
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2020, 01:48:39 PM »
Spontaneity! Surprise! Mystery! Intrigue!

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Tacachale

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Re: The RCBC debate shows Downtown needs a master plan
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2020, 05:12:15 PM »
Can we talk about the positives of NOT having a plan?

Literally anything could happen! Who knows what lays ahead! It's exciting!

And the grass, don't forget about the grass!
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Charles Hunter

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Re: The RCBC debate shows Downtown needs a master plan
« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2020, 05:26:33 PM »
Can we talk about the positives of NOT having a plan?

Literally anything could happen! Who knows what lays ahead! It's exciting!

And the grass, don't forget about the grass!

People are saying ... Fudrucker's will not come to a city with a master plan.  :o

Ken_FSU

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Re: The RCBC debate shows Downtown needs a master plan
« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2020, 05:48:42 PM »
Can we talk about the positives of NOT having a plan?

Literally anything could happen! Who knows what lays ahead! It's exciting!

And the grass, don't forget about the grass!

People are saying ... Fudrucker's will not come to a city with a master plan.  :o

Fuddrucker's should put a food truck dead center in Lenny's desolate Lawn for a day or two, just to bring this joke full circle.

I actually walked down to the Landing today.

Grabbed some TossGreen from the VyStar building and figured, "What the hell, I'll enjoy the greenspace."

Get down there, and there's literally nowhere to sit.

9-acres of grass, not a bench to be found.

Just forty trash cans, randomly dotting a sea of nothingness.

Stood in the middle of the field for about two minutes eating my salad, surrounded by trash cans, and then I felt like an asshole and left.

Speaking of parks, blight, and the lack of master planning, it just boggles my mind that two years after we closed the Main Street pocket park to convert it to a dog park (that we didn't need to begin with), it's still taped off with orange plastic fencing. The homeless population that used to congregate at that site now, in some cases, literally lays on the sidewalks surrounding Hemming Park yelling at passersby, and anyone coming into the CBD is greeted by a pocket park that looks like a murder scene.

Good times.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 05:50:21 PM by Ken_FSU »

Florida Power And Light

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Re: The RCBC debate shows Downtown needs a master plan
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2020, 09:26:10 PM »
Planners & Consultants, public input, “ visioning”.
Ha!
Shucks, Clay County residents almost stopped the First Coast Outer Beltway ( Lake Asbury Sector Plan # 1, which occurred soon after Brannon Chaffee Sector Plan- powered in part by Mayor Delaney. Lake Asbury Sector Plan # 2 put things back in order...)
Formal Government “ Planning” persons....

Non News- that which is not “ reported”, certain “ Drivers” and “ Stake Holders” neutered an element in play.

Revamp or Sunset DIA?

heights unknown

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Re: The RCBC debate shows Downtown needs a master plan
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2020, 09:35:50 PM »
What a helter skelter mess.
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marcuscnelson

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Re: The RCBC debate shows Downtown needs a master plan
« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2020, 10:48:26 PM »
Revamp or Sunset DIA?

Assuming DIA is who would be behind a master plan, there's probably an argument to be made for letting Lori Boyer go and finding an outsider to master plan downtown. It's not that she's necessarily bad, but we could probably do better if we went through the effort of doing so.

Ideally, Jacksonville voters would overthrow the political machine running City Hall, and clean house to get out of our rut. But that's the idealist in me.
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Ken_FSU

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Re: The RCBC debate shows Downtown needs a master plan
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2020, 11:42:12 PM »
Revamp or Sunset DIA?

Assuming DIA is who would be behind a master plan, there's probably an argument to be made for letting Lori Boyer go and finding an outsider to master plan downtown. It's not that she's necessarily bad, but we could probably do better if we went through the effort of doing so.

What’s ironic is that we hear so much from the mayor‘s office and city council about how Kansas City has completely reinvented their downtown, and how we need to learn from them and do the same. Yet when a man who was a MASSIVE part of that effort, Greg Flisram (senior vice president for the Economic Development Corporation of Kansas City) made a run to lead DIA, we went with Boyer instead. In a classic Jacksonville election that violated Sunshine laws via secret ballots, was practically tied, and ultimately came down to one weird, outlier scorecard that gave Boyer something crazy like 15 more points than Filsram.

Love her dearly, have worked with her personally, she’s incredible in many ways, but we should have gone outside of Jacksonville for this position. Needs a fresh set of eyes, a track record of successful downtown revitalization, and a deep network of international investors and developers.

She absolutely should be in a leadership position at the DIA, and the less sexy initiatives that she’s pushing through like the beefed up historic preservation credits, restaurant grants, two-way streets, and zoning overhauls are laying the groundwork for some real momentum in the CBD. But it worries me that we’re seeding long-term decisions over properties like the Landing, Ford on Bay, Met Park, Mosh, etc. over to someone without that great resume of master planning and successful execution.

These are 100-year decisions.

I almost feel like DIA needs a separate position focused on the macro, big picture stuff like master planning, marketing the city to the development community, and developing RFPs while Boyer blocks and tackles on the legislative and street-level stuff that she’s incredible at. To me, both are equally important, but demand much different skillsets and full-time attention.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2020, 11:44:13 PM by Ken_FSU »

marcuscnelson

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Re: The RCBC debate shows Downtown needs a master plan
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2020, 11:58:26 PM »
I almost feel like DIA needs a separate position focused on the macro, big picture stuff like master planning, marketing the city to the development community, and developing RFPs while Boyer blocks and tackles on the legislative and street-level stuff that she’s incredible at. To me, both are equally important, but demand much different skillsets and full-time attention.

Is there a framework or example somewhere for a system like that? A political role and a planning role? That sounds good to me, I'm just wondering what exactly it would look like (and how it might possibly be insulated from City Hall right now).
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

thelakelander

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Re: The RCBC debate shows Downtown needs a master plan
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2020, 07:03:21 AM »
We shouldn't need a system like that to create and follow a good master plan. That's more of a community effort and visioning process. The Mayor's administration, City Council and Boyers of the DIA will just need to follow it. A Master Plan should last past political term limits and periods of individual employment.
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CityLife

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Re: The RCBC debate shows Downtown needs a master plan
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2020, 09:54:52 AM »
^Exactly. The creation of a Downtown Master Plan would typically be done by a consulting firm, with heavy involvement from DIA staff. We have one of the best firms in the country at creating these type of plans in our state in Dover Kohl. I recently worked with them to create a form-based code in my city and they are phenomenal.

As to the question of Boyer in her role. Ideally you would have someone with combined policy/legal and planning/design backgrounds in the director role, but people that have both skill sets at a high level are rare and often do not like being handcuffed by local politics. I think she can be very successful with the right staff behind her and she's been given the resources to actually create a pretty robust staff. The DIA now has:

Director of Downtown Real Estate and Development
Operations Manager-Only holdover from last administration
Contract and Regulatory Compliance Manager
Redevelopment Coordinator
Financial Analyst
Marketing and Communications Specialist

The DIA staff is made up of mostly locals, presumably people that Boyer knows well, which can have plusses and minuses. I see some possible weaknesses there, especially in the planning type roles (which Boyer could probably use the some help at).  A problem Jax has is that because of consolidation, there is minimal local planning and redevelopment talent (especially at the public level). Where I work in Palm Beach County, there are 39 municipalities and there are about 25 well paid Planning Directors, Deputy Directors, and CRA Directors. Tampa Bay, Dade/Broward, and to a lesser extent Orlando all have that same situation. If Jax was in a similar situation, it would be much easier to pull planning/development talent and plug them into senior positions at DIA. Another issue Jax has is that it doesn't pay well, so you aren't going to steal anyone from Atlanta, Tampa, Orlando, South Florida, etc, and the City's own Planning Department is limited.

That said, Boyer has still put together what seems like a solid staff during a time when was it tough to compete against the private sector. We should give credit to Mayor Curry and Council for giving her the money to bring in enough support staff.   I've shared this story on here before, but the past staff showed up at the ICSC conference (biggest real estate development conference in Florida) with amateur marketing materials/booth and it did not reflect well on the City's redevelopment efforts. I've heard some similar anecdotes from others as well. If this current staff was in place at the beginning of the boom, I think Downtown is a little further ahead in it's redevelopment efforts.

To the original point, creating a Master Plan would help ensure redevelopment occurs, even with future staffing or political issues. Sometimes there is a negative connotation to creating master plans by people that like small government, but one thing many of them do not realize is that they are actually development friendly. They provide assurances to the development community about what will happen in the future and also let the development community know what can and will be approved (which is otherwise a risk).

With the sheer amount of publicly owned land downtown, it's pretty crazy that this article even had to be written.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2020, 09:56:58 AM by CityLife »

Florida Power And Light

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Re: The RCBC debate shows Downtown needs a master plan
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2020, 11:26:48 PM »
Brenna Durden’s son got a summer job with DIA.

Downtown lands also tied to adjacent areas. Literally.The Arlington “Problem” and the San Marco Draw.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 11:33:22 PM by Florida Power And Light »