Author Topic: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate  (Read 1719 times)

BridgeTroll

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #15 on: October 23, 2020, 07:25:50 AM »
Locking down bars and restaurants or other such businesses only hurts small business owners and low wage employees.  Wash your hands... wear your mask... and stay distanced. Unlike China or other less free countries we cannot force people to do these things.

I didn't hear Simms equating Covid and the flu.  He is pointing out the facts regarding flu death rates.  Transmission and symptoms are very similar between the two.

Initially I thought DeSantis reopened Florida too soon... I think he did the right thing now...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

marcuscnelson

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2020, 11:01:01 AM »
I'm not getting into the actual discussion, I'm just confused about this:

Ok let's talk.  Nothing will change my mind.

Not quite sure how productive a conversation it can be when you start right off the bat saying no one will convince you of anything.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

tufsu1

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2020, 02:35:36 PM »
Thirdly, I believe that death rate and hospitalization rates are FAR more important than case counts.  I had COVID and had minimal symptoms.  Most people I know who had it had zero symptoms (I had the flu simultaneously - the first case for Jacksonville of the year actually).  People are forgetting that a bad flu season can easily kill 50K-75K mostly elderly patients in a single winter.  We don't lock down for that.  Numbers wise, while every death is tragic, a few multiples of that, also mostly elderly, is not a sufficient reason to me to lock down the whole economy and deal with the significant repercussions of that.

COVID has officially killed nearly 225,000 people. The CDC notes mortality is at least 300,000 higher than recent years, so the total could be higher. AND THAT'S WITH SOCIAL DISTANCING AND RESTRICTIONS! Sorry but COVID isn't the flu.

As to hospitalizations, they are up in most states....and Florida is starting to rise again. So maybe just like in March, the US explosion will follow Europe by 2-4 weeks. That's what my "let's talk comment" meant.

If everyone practiced distancing and wore a damn mask, lockdowns would hardly be discussed.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2020, 02:37:59 PM by tufsu1 »

BridgeTroll

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2020, 03:26:15 PM »
Soooo.... this isn’t China. You cannot mandate or legislate mask wearing and distancing. Are you going to arrest people?  It requires voluntary compliance... something Americans have always been in short supply of...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

itsfantastic1

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #19 on: October 23, 2020, 08:08:42 PM »
Soooo.... this isn’t China. You cannot mandate or legislate mask wearing and distancing. Are you going to arrest people?  It requires voluntary compliance... something Americans have always been in short supply of...

While I don't disagree with your final sentence, the US and its localities have hundreds of laws that legislates/mandates all types of behavior. Laws against public urination, public intoxication, how many people can be in a building, truancy, mandatory vaccinations...

Conflating a mask mandate with Chinese totalitarians is nonsense. In this country, your rights end where someone elses begin. You can't yell fire in a crowded theater, you can't knowingly expose someone to HIV/AIDS and you have to wear clothes in public; there are laws to punish you otherwise.

Science currently says the best way to handle this virus is to socially distance and wear a mask. Failure to do so may spread the virus to someone else unwillingly, which could result in their death. If people are unwilling to comply with these facts to protect others and stop the spread, then that's exactly when a law or mandate should come in.

We only had to resort to drastic measures like a shutdown because we were unable as a country to stop the spread quickly enough (for many reasons), so science at that time said a shutdown was best. This was an unfortunate consequence of our initial response, not a gleeful display of deep state power against small businesses.

It boggles my mind that following the recommendation of infectious diseases experts and using laws and executive orders to enforce them when not voluntarily complied with, has been twisted into a moral battle on American freedom, especially while we are still in the midst of said pandemic.

BridgeTroll

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #20 on: October 23, 2020, 08:53:42 PM »
I think everyone should wear masks... distance... and wash their hands. What I said was... and I stand by it... is NO ONE is going to pass a law with actual teeth that police are going to enforce making failure to comply a criminal offense.

China... CAN.
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

MusicMan

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #21 on: October 24, 2020, 10:17:18 AM »
Florida has so many at risk individuals it seems prudent to do whatever you can to remain safe. I hate the mask, but I wear it during our concerts cause that's what we have to do to keep our players and patrons safe.

Florida is the biggest and most important swing state, and from what I've seen seniors favor Biden by a little. You'd think Trump and DeSantis would do something to try and correct that.... but they are not.

BridgeTroll

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #22 on: October 24, 2020, 11:16:37 AM »
Florida has so many at risk individuals it seems prudent to do whatever you can to remain safe. I hate the mask, but I wear it during our concerts cause that's what we have to do to keep our players and patrons safe.

Florida is the biggest and most important swing state, and from what I've seen seniors favor Biden by a little. You'd think Trump and DeSantis would do something to try and correct that.... but they are not.

Suggestions?  Should they shut down restaurants and bars?  Concerts?
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."

Tacachale

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #23 on: October 24, 2020, 12:16:39 PM »
Just a note, this is not going to be a forum for COVID denialism or downplaying. Keep up the debate but any comments that veer into denialism or conspiracy territory will be removed.
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

BridgeTroll

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Re: 2020 Congressional District 4 Debate
« Reply #24 on: October 24, 2020, 12:34:00 PM »
Just a note, this is not going to be a forum for COVID denialism or downplaying. Keep up the debate but any comments that veer into denialism or conspiracy territory will be removed.
Clearly there are differences of opinion regarding openness and restrictions regarding the pandemic. Those differences vary state to state and country to country.  Cultural and governmental realities both aid or abet efforts to mitigate adverse consequences...
In a boat at sea one of the men began to bore a hole in the bottom of the boat. On being remonstrating with, he answered, "I am only boring under my own seat." "Yes," said his companions, "but when the sea rushes in we shall all be drowned with you."