Author Topic: MOSH weighs relocating museum from its Southbank site in downtown Jacksonville  (Read 44241 times)

jaxlongtimer

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-Jax has a very well developed middle class, but does not have the type of wealth you have in South Florida, the Tampa Bay Area, SWFL, or in cities like Atlanta, Nashville, and Charlotte. While Jax doesn't have the type of wealth other cities have, the fact that Jax is struggling to raise $40 million for it's signature institution is honestly pretty shocking.

I think this is a big issue. For example, the reason Atlanta has an awesome aquarium is because Arthur Blank (Home Depot Co-Founder, Atlanta Falcons Owner) is not only loaded, but extremely charitable.

I actually believe there are those among us who can write almost any size check if they are inclined to be philanthropic and are passionate for the cause.  I think the former characteristic among our uber-wealthy residents isn't nearly as robust in Jax as in other places.  A big donation here is $5 or $10 million, not $25 to $100 million.  Yet, there are locals who have approached those levels of giving for nonprofits elsewhere over the decades, mainly universities and medical centers - although Ira Koger (who developed America's first office park in Jacksonville) did endow an arts center in South Carolina decades ago.

Wealthy people in Jax are not nearly as flashy, at least with their in-town life styles, as others in NY, LA or South Florida, but they are here in greater numbers than most locals realize. 

I also see a trichotomy among our wealthy residents.  There are a couple of hundred or so families that give to nearly everywhere, there are some very wealthy families* that rarely give to anything or anywhere close to their capacity to give and there is "new" money that is not being tapped because it hasn't been recognized by locals to-date.  It is not much of a secret in the nonprofit world who is who among the first two and the latter takes more effort and time to uncover.

*I am convinced we have a number of billionaire families living here but they don't give like ones.
« Last Edit: February 23, 2024, 11:34:14 PM by jaxlongtimer »

marcuscnelson

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simms3

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Wealthy people in Jax are not nearly as flashy, at least with their in-town life styles, as others in NY, LA or South Florida, but they are here in greater numbers than most locals realize. 

I also see a trichotomy among our wealthy residents.  There are a couple of hundred or so families that give to nearly everywhere, there are some very wealthy families* that rarely give to anything or anywhere close to their capacity to give and there is "new" money that is not being tapped because it hasn't been recognized by locals to-date.  It is not much of a secret in the nonprofit world who is who among the first two and the latter takes more effort and time to uncover.

*I am convinced we have a number of billionaire families living here but they don't give like ones.

I agree with all of the above.
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thelakelander

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Sprinkle list: MOSH money heads to Jacksonville for ‘Genesis Project’

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/663321-mosh-genesis/
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

marcuscnelson

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$5 million? Assuming that survives the veto pen it doesn’t seem like a big enough dent.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

fsu813

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Davis family just donated $1.5 mill. Jill Davis is part of the fundraising team.

CityLife

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-Jax has a very well developed middle class, but does not have the type of wealth you have in South Florida, the Tampa Bay Area, SWFL, or in cities like Atlanta, Nashville, and Charlotte. While Jax doesn't have the type of wealth other cities have, the fact that Jax is struggling to raise $40 million for it's signature institution is honestly pretty shocking.

I think this is a big issue. For example, the reason Atlanta has an awesome aquarium is because Arthur Blank (Home Depot Co-Founder, Atlanta Falcons Owner) is not only loaded, but extremely charitable.

I actually believe there are those among us who can write almost any size check if they are inclined to be philanthropic and are passionate for the cause.  I think the former characteristic among our uber-wealthy residents isn't nearly as robust in Jax as in other places.  A big donation here is $5 or $10 million, not $25 to $100 million.  Yet, there are locals who have approached those levels of giving for nonprofits elsewhere over the decades, mainly universities and medical centers - although Ira Koger (who developed America's first office park in Jacksonville) did endow an arts center in South Carolina decades ago.

Wealthy people in Jax are not nearly as flashy, at least with their in-town life styles, as others in NY, LA or South Florida, but they are here in greater numbers than most locals realize. 

I also see a trichotomy among our wealthy residents.  There are a couple of hundred or so families that give to nearly everywhere, there are some very wealthy families* that rarely give to anything or anywhere close to their capacity to give and there is "new" money that is not being tapped because it hasn't been recognized by locals to-date.  It is not much of a secret in the nonprofit world who is who among the first two and the latter takes more effort and time to uncover.

*I am convinced we have a number of billionaire families living here but they don't give like ones.

Jax has several wealthy families and some individually wealthy people. I can think of about 10 off the top of my head that can stroke a huge check to help push MOSH over the finish line, but by and large the Jax area doesn't have a fraction of the wealthy people of a NY, LA, or South Florida. There were 79 billionaires in Florida (Most in South Florida, with a few in Naples or Tampa Bay) last year and only Wayne Weaver lives in the Jax area. There are probably another 50-100 that have 2nd homes in South Florida or SWFL.

These areas don't just have the most ultra-wealthy billionaires either. There are exponentially more people with net worth's between $50 million-$1 billion. In the past couple years, there have been 122 homes in Dade County, 141 homes in Palm Beach County, and 37 homes in Collier County that have sold for more than the most expensive home ever sold in the area Jax ($22 million) and many of them are well over that. There have been 393 homes in Dade County, 457 in Palm Beach, and 183 in Collier County that sold for more than $10 million in the past few years. Duval County has had 0 homes sell for more than $10 million in that period and St. Johns County only 10.

As someone that grew up in Jax and knows the area well and now lives in South Florida, trust me when I say it is mind boggling how much money is down here compared to Jax.

That said, I'm still optimistic that one (or more) of Jax's heavy hitters can step up and get MOSH to the finish line. I just hope that the construction cost hasn't gone up too much.

thelakelander

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As someone that grew up in Jax and knows the area well and now lives in South Florida, trust me when I say it is mind boggling how much money is down here compared to Jax.

Should it be mind boggling? South Florida is an internationally recognized metropolitan area five or six times larger than Jax. Miami is literally built with international drug and real estate money. No offense to any born and raised Jaxsons but Jax is a podunk country town in comparison from a numbers perspective. Any direct comparisons to South Florida on some of these things should have died back in the 1970s and 80s. South Florida aside, how do we compare to Memphis, Louisville, Providence, etc. and how are they able to get things done? We're closer in scale to those places than the largest urban areas in country.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2024, 01:48:23 PM by thelakelander »
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CityLife

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As someone that grew up in Jax and knows the area well and now lives in South Florida, trust me when I say it is mind boggling how much money is down here compared to Jax.

Should it be mind boggling? South Florida is an internationally recognized metropolitan area five or six times larger than Jax. Miami is literally built with international drug and real estate money. No offense to any born and raised Jaxsons but Jax is a podunk country town in comparison from a numbers perspective. Any direct comparisons to South Florida on some of these things should have died back in the 1970s and 80s. South Florida aside, how do we compare to Memphis, Louisville, Providence, etc. and how are they able to get things done? We're closer in scale to those places than the largest urban areas in country.

A lot of people that are not from Jax understand what you said, but I'm not sure a lot of natives do. The point was in response to Jaxlongtimer's theory that Jax has a lot more wealth than is led on. It really doesn't. If it did, the Cobra Kai house in Atlantic Beach would be worth $30-50 million, not $10 million.

jaxlongtimer

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As someone that grew up in Jax and knows the area well and now lives in South Florida, trust me when I say it is mind boggling how much money is down here compared to Jax.

Should it be mind boggling? South Florida is an internationally recognized metropolitan area five or six times larger than Jax. Miami is literally built with international drug and real estate money. No offense to any born and raised Jaxsons but Jax is a podunk country town in comparison from a numbers perspective. Any direct comparisons to South Florida on some of these things should have died back in the 1970s and 80s. South Florida aside, how do we compare to Memphis, Louisville, Providence, etc. and how are they able to get things done? We're closer in scale to those places than the largest urban areas in country.

A lot of people that are not from Jax understand what you said, but I'm not sure a lot of natives do. The point was in response to Jaxlongtimer's theory that Jax has a lot more wealth than is led on. It really doesn't. If it did, the Cobra Kai house in Atlantic Beach would be worth $30-50 million, not $10 million.

Just because homes at the beach here are cheaper than South Florida doesn't mean there isn't money here.  Prices at the beach are driven by the market and our beaches don't have the same demand/supply ratio that South Florida has.  Someone at our beach may be able to afford a $50 million home but why pay it if that is not where the market is here.  Also, a lot of money in South Florida is for second or more homes for foreigners.  So much so, that laws have been passed to trace such buyers given concerns over money laundering, etc.  These home buyers are not going to be donating to South Florida nonprofits much, if at all.

I would also take lists of billionaires with a grain of salt.  Most on the list own big chunks of public companies so their wealth is more obvious.  I can assure you that there are billionaires with private companies that are "invisible" to such lists and we have a few here for sure. 

In that vein, too, most wealth in Jax is more low key than "flashy" South Florida.  This was the gist of my original post.  To be sure, no question, there is more money in South Florida by far, boosted by sheer numbers of people, COVID and the attraction to the wealthy of the South Florida lifestyle.  But many of that ilk are now discovering NE Florida as viable option so we are "movin' on up"  8).

Florida, generally, is also adding wealth across the board from higher tax state residents liking our no-income-tax state.  I just read an article that Delray Beach is now a hot area, for example, vs. traditional wealthy South Florida enclaves like Miami Beach and West Palm Beach. 
« Last Edit: March 09, 2024, 10:34:13 AM by jaxlongtimer »

CityLife

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As someone that grew up in Jax and knows the area well and now lives in South Florida, trust me when I say it is mind boggling how much money is down here compared to Jax.

Should it be mind boggling? South Florida is an internationally recognized metropolitan area five or six times larger than Jax. Miami is literally built with international drug and real estate money. No offense to any born and raised Jaxsons but Jax is a podunk country town in comparison from a numbers perspective. Any direct comparisons to South Florida on some of these things should have died back in the 1970s and 80s. South Florida aside, how do we compare to Memphis, Louisville, Providence, etc. and how are they able to get things done? We're closer in scale to those places than the largest urban areas in country.

A lot of people that are not from Jax understand what you said, but I'm not sure a lot of natives do. The point was in response to Jaxlongtimer's theory that Jax has a lot more wealth than is led on. It really doesn't. If it did, the Cobra Kai house in Atlantic Beach would be worth $30-50 million, not $10 million.

Just because homes at the beach here are cheaper than South Florida doesn't mean there isn't money here.  Prices at the beach are driven by the market and our beaches don't have the same demand/supply ratio that South Florida has.  Someone at our beach may be able to afford a $50 million home but why pay it if that is not where the market is here.  Also, a lot of money in South Florida is for second or more homes for foreigners.  So much so, that laws have been passed to trace such buyers given concerns over money laundering, etc.  These home buyers are not going to be donating to South Florida nonprofits much, if at all.

I would also take lists of billionaires with a grain of salt.  Most on the list own big chunks of public companies so their wealth is more obvious.  I can assure you that there are billionaires with private companies that are "invisible" to such lists and we have a few here for sure. 

In that vein, too, most wealth in Jax is more low key than "flashy" South Florida.  This was the gist of my original post.  To be sure, no question, there is more money in South Florida by far, boosted by sheer numbers of people, COVID and the attraction to the wealthy of the South Florida lifestyle.  But many of that ilk are now discovering NE Florida as viable option so we are "movin' on up"  8).

Florida, generally, is also adding wealth across the board from higher tax state residents liking our no-income-tax state.  I just read an article that Delray Beach is now a hot area, for example, vs. traditional wealthy South Florid enclaves like Miami Beach and West Palm Beach. 

You made my point for me. The Jax beaches/PVB don't have the same supply and demand as South Florida, because well, as I previously stated there are not nearly as many wealthy people in Jax or looking to move to Jax. The proof is in the data I have provided. Yes, there are people with plenty of money in Jax, but there simply aren't nearly as many of them. If there were, prime oceanfront homes would be considerably more expensive. You can read about how this works here: https://www.cnbc.com/2023/10/19/billionaires-are-driving-south-florida-home-prices-to-new-records-.html

You are also speculating quite a bit based on assumptions, not reality. The real world isn't a Pitbull music video or Miami Vice. Very few of the wealthy in South Florida live flashy lifestyles. Most of them live in super exclusive and low key places like Palm Beach, Indian Creek, Golden Beach, Manalapan, Jupiter Island, North Palm Beach, Tequesta, Fisher Island, Key Biscayne, Gulf Stream, and so on. And sure, there is some foreign money laundering in South Florida. After all, people aren't going to try and launder money in Dubuque, Iowa....but a great deal of the wealthy residents either live in South Florida full time or at minimum from November to April ("season") and most of them are Americans.

To your point on these people not donating to local causes, The Norton Museum in West Palm Beach launched a $60 million capital campaign in 2015. They ended up raising $110 million. The Kravits Center (West Palm Beach's Times Union Center) finished a $50 million expansion entirely from donations in 2019. The WPB Science Center has already raised $80 million and would have already raised $100 if they hadn't set the bar low on naming rights. Jupiter Medical Center just finished a $300 million capital campaign and met it easily. Fundraising will be substantially easier now based on the sheer number of wealthy people that have moved to South Florida full time.

We're really getting way off track here though...Back to Jax, there really aren't nearly as many people in Jax that can stroke a $5-10 million check as you seem to think, but there definitely are some. Hopefully they pull through. Whoever it is that makes a naming rights level of donation will go down as a legend forever in Jacksonville history.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2024, 04:42:25 PM by CityLife »

jaxlongtimer

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^ Having been involved in a number of community initiatives that connect with wealthy people, there is more wealth here than is commonly known.  And, as a percentage of our population, it is easily a solid 1%.  1% of a million population is 10,000.  That should be reasonably adequate to raise more dollars here than what we see today.  My only point in the end.

Tacachale

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Billlionaires, huh? Sounds like it’s time for a big ass wealth tax.
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marcuscnelson

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Decided to go and read the presentation from this week's community meeting (available here) and I noticed:

When did the city rename the area surrounding the MOSH site "Confluence Park"? Where did that name come from? Who decided on it? It's not a terrible name but it just seems strange that some things move so fast and other things don't.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

Jax_Developer

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Marcus, that's another example of the lack of coordination that our city agencies have towards their goals downtown. There is no leader in this plan, the DIA is far from it. When you look at that presentation (I wasn't there to be fair) it's hard to take it seriously. It's more accurate to say that most of these plans will change than those that won't. There are so many different agendas at work when you take it all in.

The focus at this point is to hope & pray that the projects like MOSH, infrastructure, and parks over DT make a difference in the eyes of private developers. An extremely risky game to say the least. I'd much rather see a smaller portion of DT focused on, with extremely intense incentives to make 10+ story construction possible. I don't see how we are out of the incentives world in the next decade (outside of Southbank & Brooklyn). We're gonna need a lot of parking for our MOSH 2.0 since people won't be walking there or using transit.

What's the purpose of relocating the MOSH if there isn't a well defined route to getting our DT out of the red anyway? The net benefit is surely negative when you consider the public funds & land. I'm sure it feels like something is happening & makes the DT #'s look good.