Author Topic: JTA to open No Frills Brooklyn Skyway Station  (Read 9548 times)

Charles Hunter

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Re: JTA to open No Frills Brooklyn Skyway Station
« Reply #60 on: March 04, 2021, 09:44:52 AM »
I wish reporters had a better grasp of local geography
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Plans filed with the city in March 2020 show the project will link the Central Skyway Station at Bay and Lee streets in LaVilla to the Downtown Northbank neighborhood.

The Brooklyn Station does connect to the Central Skyway Station; but it is on Bay between Pearl and Julia, over a half-mile from the JRTC, the closest station to Bay and Lee (and still a block away from that intersection)

marcuscnelson

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Re: JTA to open No Frills Brooklyn Skyway Station
« Reply #61 on: March 04, 2021, 12:23:09 PM »
6 months until completion?  I like the sound of that!  I do wish the route would go farther into Brooklyn toward 5 point, but this new stop goes a long way toward making the system actually take people from where they are to where they want/need to be.  This opens up tons of dining for southbank residents and connects the stated 1,000 residents of Brooklyn to the CBD.

I hope they market the absolute hell out of it. September is really perfect timing for this. By then it sounds like a decent number of people should be vaccinated and able to safely take advantage of it. Plus the new skywalk should hopefully help ease connectivity to it. Really makes this a lynchpin of connectivity for Brooklyn to Downtown.

It would be nice to go further, but then I remember that the station apparently needed for that would have been $20 million and I feel less bad about it. At the end of the day, this is the first “expansion” of the Skyway in twenty years and that deserves some celebration, even if it’s a little less substantial than this forum would have wanted.

I wish reporters had a better grasp of local geography
Quote
Plans filed with the city in March 2020 show the project will link the Central Skyway Station at Bay and Lee streets in LaVilla to the Downtown Northbank neighborhood.

The Brooklyn Station does connect to the Central Skyway Station; but it is on Bay between Pearl and Julia, over a half-mile from the JRTC, the closest station to Bay and Lee (and still a block away from that intersection)

Weird, that’s a bizzare error. Maybe they originally meant the JRTC for some reason and then changed the title and not the streets?
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

thelakelander

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Re: JTA to open No Frills Brooklyn Skyway Station
« Reply #62 on: March 04, 2021, 12:48:50 PM »
Been thinking about doing an article on this one. We suggested this no-frills ground level station concept to JTA over 13 years ago. I have the dig up the old threads and articles but they are still on this site. At the time, there were excuses made to why it could not be done and then tons of money was spent going after an elevated station alternative that ultimately failed. It's great to see them circle back around to the idea of no-frills and highly affordable transit solutions.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

fieldafm

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Re: JTA to open No Frills Brooklyn Skyway Station
« Reply #63 on: March 04, 2021, 01:02:16 PM »
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Interesting that costs went up $400k between last year and now

Concrete and steel costs have continued to rise, thanks to Trump.  Not surprising that the bid exceeded the initial RFP cap.

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then tons of money was spent going after an elevated station alternative that ultimately failed

If I remember correctly, JTA said that they couldn't build an at-grade platform as this would cause people walking along the sidewalk to wander on to the platform and risk near-certain electrocution, which I found very, very amusing.

Think of all that ROW that was wasted along Riverside Ave due to JTA wanting to extend a station down to Riverside/Forest.  This is why there is such a setback at 220 Riverside, 200 Riverside, Brooklyn Station and Brooklyn Place... due to that easement that runs parallel to Riverside Ave.  I think there are some aerials that show this old easement from the MJ archives. 

The 2013 TIGER Grant application that we wrote a recommendation for, also provided for an elevated station design. 

Ultimately, JTA quietly sold the land that was slated for the elevated station at Riverside/Forrest to one of their road contractors.  This piece of property is slated to become The Hub infill project by the developers behind Southern Grounds Coffee:

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/the-hub-infill-development-proposed-for-brooklyn/?fbclid=IwAR0VUFIWLzlCm5wm_BRSSdYjtBtgMT-3XLDSU-oZGoEAYKfGfV5MzLmXe2c


More of Ned Jones' developments:

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/southern-grounds-coffee-proposed-in-avondale/

« Last Edit: March 04, 2021, 01:04:47 PM by fieldafm »

thelakelander

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Re: JTA to open No Frills Brooklyn Skyway Station
« Reply #64 on: March 04, 2021, 01:17:48 PM »
^Interesting retail proposal. I can't imagine why someone would want to add more retail space or why Southern Grounds would want to open a new coffee shop on Riverside Avenue. Did they not read the LaVilla Master Plan report and what it had to say about Brooklyn's retail environment?
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

marcuscnelson

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Re: JTA to open No Frills Brooklyn Skyway Station
« Reply #65 on: March 04, 2021, 11:26:50 PM »
^Interesting retail proposal. I can't imagine why someone would want to add more retail space or why Southern Grounds would want to open a new coffee shop on Riverside Avenue. Did they not read the LaVilla Master Plan report and what it had to say about Brooklyn's retail environment?

Ha, ha.

If I remember correctly, JTA said that they couldn't build an at-grade platform as this would cause people walking along the sidewalk to wander on to the platform and risk near-certain electrocution, which I found very, very amusing.

I mean, I guess it's not out of the question, if there was no fence for some reason. There's no reason that can't happen at the stations though. Although, has anyone ever died after jumping onto the Skyway's beam and getting electrocuted?

Quote
Think of all that ROW that was wasted along Riverside Ave due to JTA wanting to extend a station down to Riverside/Forest.  This is why there is such a setback at 220 Riverside, 200 Riverside, Brooklyn Station and Brooklyn Place... due to that easement that runs parallel to Riverside Ave.  I think there are some aerials that show this old easement from the MJ archives. 

The 2013 TIGER Grant application that we wrote a recommendation for, also provided for an elevated station design. 

Ultimately, JTA quietly sold the land that was slated for the elevated station at Riverside/Forrest to one of their road contractors.  This piece of property is slated to become The Hub infill project by the developers behind Southern Grounds Coffee:

I don't think it's wrong that JTA hoped that extension would happen, and planned with it in mind. Generally it's a good thing to think ahead like that. The problem is that it never happened.

This does beg the question now of what is the long-term plan for that type of connectivity in the area? With U2C seemingly out of the question for at least a decade, what else happens now? The easement is there, is there anything else we could use it for at this point? Or does JTA just bide its time until AVs are worked out?
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

thelakelander

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Re: JTA to open No Frills Brooklyn Skyway Station
« Reply #66 on: March 05, 2021, 07:44:26 AM »
This does beg the question now of what is the long-term plan for that type of connectivity in the area? With U2C seemingly out of the question for at least a decade, what else happens now? The easement is there, is there anything else we could use it for at this point? Or does JTA just bide its time until AVs are worked out?

I don't think anything should be done with the Skyway in Brooklyn after this station opens. Most of the neighborhood still falls within a 1/4 radius of the station. The primarily focus should be continuing to densify within that station walk shed. In the meantime, they should further vet and figure this U2C thing out.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

jcjohnpaint

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Re: JTA to open No Frills Brooklyn Skyway Station
« Reply #67 on: March 05, 2021, 08:33:26 AM »
Do you think running the skyway as a track system technology should continue into 5 points? I really don't like the idea of going back into traffic for any extensions personally.

fieldafm

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Re: JTA to open No Frills Brooklyn Skyway Station
« Reply #68 on: March 05, 2021, 08:48:10 AM »
Do you think running the skyway as a track system technology should continue into 5 points? I really don't like the idea of going back into traffic for any extensions personally.

A large concrete beam going down Riverside Avenue (or anywhere else) would sever street connectivity.  You would have to construct more elevated tracks and stations, and then acquire right-of-way to do so (and where would you do that in a farily dense environment?)... which would be hugely expensive, and wouldn't be worthwhile.

fieldafm

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Re: JTA to open No Frills Brooklyn Skyway Station
« Reply #69 on: March 05, 2021, 09:02:24 AM »

I don't think it's wrong that JTA hoped that extension would happen, and planned with it in mind. Generally it's a good thing to think ahead like that. The problem is that it never happened.

This does beg the question now of what is the long-term plan for that type of connectivity in the area? With U2C seemingly out of the question for at least a decade, what else happens now? The easement is there, is there anything else we could use it for at this point? Or does JTA just bide its time until AVs are worked out?

Long term planning is great. My point was, the long-term planning that started in the late 1980's, that led to the urban freeway we now have in Forrest Street and Riverside Ave, as well as a ridiculous easement to preserve land for a Skyway station that never happened (nor needed to happen) was an extremely expensive mistake, that will never be adequately corrected in my lifetime.  Jacksonville has spent TONS of money in the guise of urban revitalization. Most of that money has been spent incorrectly.

Here is some info on how the grid network got severed, and why Brooklyn looks like it does today.
https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/unity-plaza-retail-site-listed-for-sale-page-2/

As an aside, Park Street is in the process of being retrofitted throughout Riverside to accommodate BRT stations, and once the Brooklyn section of Park Street goes under construction for the road diet, JTA will then add their BRT stations along that section as well.  Those BRT lines run directly into the JRTC in LaVilla and connect to pretty much anywhere in JTA's route network (including the Skyway).

You can see the BRT stations in Brooklyn through this link:
https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/plans-filed-for-park-street-road-diet/
« Last Edit: March 05, 2021, 09:31:50 AM by fieldafm »

thelakelander

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Re: JTA to open No Frills Brooklyn Skyway Station
« Reply #70 on: March 05, 2021, 09:15:21 AM »
^With BRT running down Park, running the U2C to Riverside and Five Points makes little sense. Add a BRT station in Brooklyn (with the JRTC being the transfer point to the Skyway) and call it a day.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

marcuscnelson

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Re: JTA to open No Frills Brooklyn Skyway Station
« Reply #71 on: March 05, 2021, 12:03:37 PM »
Long term planning is great. My point was, the long-term planning that started in the late 1980's, that led to the urban freeway we now have in Forrest Street and Riverside Ave, as well as a ridiculous easement to preserve land for a Skyway station that never happened (nor needed to happen) was an extremely expensive mistake, that will never be adequately corrected in my lifetime.  Jacksonville has spent TONS of money in the guise of urban revitalization. Most of that money has been spent incorrectly.

Here is some info on how the grid network got severed, and why Brooklyn looks like it does today.
https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/unity-plaza-retail-site-listed-for-sale-page-2/

So it's not that there was a plan, it's that the plan was poorly thought out and not actually conducive to building a prosperous neighborhood. And also apparently overseen by spiteful, car-centered officials.

As an aside, Park Street is in the process of being retrofitted throughout Riverside to accommodate BRT stations, and once the Brooklyn section of Park Street goes under construction for the road diet, JTA will then add their BRT stations along that section as well.  Those BRT lines run directly into the JRTC in LaVilla and connect to pretty much anywhere in JTA's route network (including the Skyway).

You can see the BRT stations in Brooklyn through this link:
https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/plans-filed-for-park-street-road-diet/

^With BRT running down Park, running the U2C to Riverside and Five Points makes little sense. Add a BRT station in Brooklyn (with the JRTC being the transfer point to the Skyway) and call it a day.

That sounds like more than an aside. It sounds like you two are saying that the plans as they stand are essentially in conflict with each other due to not taking into account each other's existence. And that JTA really needs to think about what their transit strategy for that neighborhood actually is, and make sure that whatever they choose to do connects effectively and is useful for the community.
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

thelakelander

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Re: JTA to open No Frills Brooklyn Skyway Station
« Reply #72 on: March 05, 2021, 03:01:28 PM »
Yes. We need a downtown vision plan that coordinates land use and development strategy, along with transit investment and station placement. From what's being proposed, you can see that we clearly don't have one, despite what officials claimed the other week.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

DTWD_NW904

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Re: JTA to open No Frills Brooklyn Skyway Station
« Reply #73 on: March 05, 2021, 09:31:02 PM »
Finally, the skyway will go somewhere people will actually want to go.

WAJAS

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Re: JTA to open No Frills Brooklyn Skyway Station
« Reply #74 on: March 06, 2021, 03:08:05 PM »
^With BRT running down Park, running the U2C to Riverside and Five Points makes little sense. Add a BRT station in Brooklyn (with the JRTC being the transfer point to the Skyway) and call it a day.
The BRT and Skyway seem to be serving different purposes though. The Flyer BRT is medium- to long-distance commuters, while the Skyway (like Lymmo in Orlando or Metromover in Miami) is an urban circulator. The BRT stops in Brooklyn are more likely to be used by people working in Brooklyn than anyone living there (unless they do a reverse commute).

If U2C stays free like the Skyway, then stops in Brooklyn at Forest/Park and Five Points would follow this same idea. BRT for those commuting in, and U2C as the urban circulator.