Author Topic: JTA planning to seek bids to build, run U2C  (Read 1025 times)

thelakelander

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JTA planning to seek bids to build, run U2C
« on: February 28, 2020, 08:49:24 AM »
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JTA CEO Nathaniel Ford said Feb. 24 the authority plans to issue a request for proposals for the project JTA officials estimate will cost $350 to $400 million.

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Phase I, expected to be completed by 2025, is fully funded. JTA will spend $44 million to build a 3-mile, ground-level loop for the automated vehicles along Bay Street from the Skyway’s Downtown Central Station at Julia Street to TIAA Bank Field — part of the proposed Bay Street Innovation Corridor.

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Phase II will convert the existing Skyway track into an elevated roadway for autonomous vehicles.

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Phase III will complete the 10-mile autonomous vehicle network into neighborhoods surrounding Downtown — north to Springfield and UF Health Jacksonville and south to Brooklyn/Riverside and San Marco.

Full article: https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/the-mendenhall-report-jta-planning-to-seek-bids-to-build-run-u2c
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Tacachale

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Re: JTA planning to seek bids to build, run U2C
« Reply #1 on: February 28, 2020, 09:55:36 AM »
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JTA CEO Nathaniel Ford said Feb. 24 the authority plans to issue a request for proposals for the project JTA officials estimate will cost $350 to $400 million.

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Phase I, expected to be completed by 2025, is fully funded. JTA will spend $44 million to build a 3-mile, ground-level loop for the automated vehicles along Bay Street from the Skyway’s Downtown Central Station at Julia Street to TIAA Bank Field — part of the proposed Bay Street Innovation Corridor.

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Phase II will convert the existing Skyway track into an elevated roadway for autonomous vehicles.

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Phase III will complete the 10-mile autonomous vehicle network into neighborhoods surrounding Downtown — north to Springfield and UF Health Jacksonville and south to Brooklyn/Riverside and San Marco.

Full article: https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/the-mendenhall-report-jta-planning-to-seek-bids-to-build-run-u2c

$44 million?!?!
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thelakelander

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Re: JTA planning to seek bids to build, run U2C
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2020, 09:58:15 AM »
Just as much as a streetcar but significantly less capacity and more risk! So much for saving money.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Josh

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Re: JTA planning to seek bids to build, run U2C
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2020, 11:56:08 AM »
It sounds like they're banking on Lot J to succeed in a big way, because these things don't seem to be better for for anything other than shuttling around a happy hour crowd. Certainly not the amount of people that would be attending major events.

Ken_FSU

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Re: JTA planning to seek bids to build, run U2C
« Reply #4 on: February 28, 2020, 01:28:05 PM »
Is there anything more Jacksonville than:

1) Going all-in on a $44 million, low-speed clown car loop connecting the demolished Jacksonville Landing to a contaminated Shipyards/Lot J area that may never be developed

2) Dismantling the existing Skyway connection between our brand new Regional Transportation Center and our CBD to build a "proof on concept" test track for the clown cars

3) Patting ourselves on the back for our vision while insisting that the private sector will jump in to expand the system at some unspecified future date into the only areas (the urban neighborhoods) that make the system even reasonably useful.

What practical everyday need is being fulfilled by a $44 million Julia to TIAA Bank Field connector that can't be fulfilled by paying a drunk on a pedicab $25k a year? Where is this critical mass of clowns in hazmat suits who sleep by night in the rubble of the Landing but work by day in the desolate brownfields 1.4 miles down the street?

Really does feel like Skyway 2.0, connecting nothing with nothing.

As goofy as all the "barbell development" talk is, where developing Lot J is going to magically catalyze development straight down Bay Street into Brooklyn, a streetcar line between the two would at least provide some genuine utility and give TOD the best opportunity to spring up.


marcuscnelson

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Re: JTA planning to seek bids to build, run U2C
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2020, 01:48:33 PM »

thelakelander

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Re: JTA planning to seek bids to build, run U2C
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2020, 02:26:16 PM »
Is there anything more Jacksonville than:

1) Going all-in on a $44 million, low-speed clown car loop connecting the demolished Jacksonville Landing to a contaminated Shipyards/Lot J area that may never be developed

To be fair, phase one is anticipated to open in 2025. If this is the prediction date, it will likely be later. That's plenty of time to see what actually happens with Lot J and also kill or significantly modify this thing.

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2) Dismantling the existing Skyway connection between our brand new Regional Transportation Center and our CBD to build a "proof on concept" test track for the clown cars

This one is pretty boneheaded and I seriously hope that this doesn't happen prior to phase one being completed. We're finally getting people living in that area of LaVilla and a transit center up. That's the last segment of the Skyway that should be experimented with. Don't force the user to transfer or be a part of a test if they don't have to be. Screwing with the end user experience is the best way to land in failure territory.

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3) Patting ourselves on the back for our vision while insisting that the private sector will jump in to expand the system at some unspecified future date into the only areas (the urban neighborhoods) that make the system even reasonably useful.

Phases 2 and 3 are so far out in the future, that they'll probably never happen. So after years of modernization and expansion talk, we're no where closer to serving these neighborhoods than we were originally. My guess is that even by 2025, there will be a new gadget out there that will be the apple of the eye.

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What practical everyday need is being fulfilled by a $44 million Julia to TIAA Bank Field connector that can't be fulfilled by paying a drunk on a pedicab $25k a year? Where is this critical mass of clowns in hazmat suits who sleep by night in the rubble of the Landing but work by day in the desolate brownfields 1.4 miles down the street?

Probably just latching on to the tails of the Jags, since they have the mayor's attention.

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Really does feel like Skyway 2.0, connecting nothing with nothing.

Unfortunately, the more and more news that comes out, it does seem more like a Skyway 2.0 situation. Go big or go home, seems to be our traditional pattern. Unfortunately, we strike out swinging for the fences most of the time when something as simple as a bunt would have delivered the win.

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As goofy as all the "barbell development" talk is, where developing Lot J is going to magically catalyze development straight down Bay Street into Brooklyn, a streetcar line between the two would at least provide some genuine utility and give TOD the best opportunity to spring up.

For TOD, they don't need to extend anything. The Skyway already has eight existing stations and reliable headways. Any land or underutilized building adjacent to an existing station (ex. Rosa Parks, JRTC, Kings Avenue, etc.) should be a TOD priority. Another priority should be operating on weekends. That needs to happen now and not some unknown date after 2025.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 02:31:12 PM by thelakelander »
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Charles Hunter

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Re: JTA planning to seek bids to build, run U2C
« Reply #7 on: February 28, 2020, 03:08:26 PM »
Regarding #2 - track between JRTC and Julia - I may be imagining things, but seem to remember JTA was only going to convert one of the tracks for U2C testing, allowing the other to remain in service for the existing vehicles. 

thelakelander

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Re: JTA planning to seek bids to build, run U2C
« Reply #8 on: February 28, 2020, 03:23:10 PM »
Hopefully. It would a disaster to sever that connection with the JRTC opening. Any updates on running in mixed traffic? For example, if running at max capacity at 12mph on Bay, what would the LOS of Bay be vs what it is today?
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bl8jaxnative

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Re: JTA planning to seek bids to build, run U2C
« Reply #9 on: February 29, 2020, 07:25:25 PM »
Just as much as a streetcar but significantly less capacity and more risk! So much for saving money.

I'd bet there isn't a single trolley in this country built these days that cost so little for 3 miles.  Not even close.  Any takers?
« Last Edit: February 29, 2020, 07:28:30 PM by bl8jaxnative »

Tacachale

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Re: JTA planning to seek bids to build, run U2C
« Reply #10 on: February 29, 2020, 08:03:15 PM »
Just as much as a streetcar but significantly less capacity and more risk! So much for saving money.

I'd bet there isn't a single trolley in this country built these days that cost so little for 3 miles.  Not even close.  Any takers?

LMGTFY

http://www.heritagetrolley.org/artcileBringBackStreetcars7.htm
Do you believe that when the blue jay or another bird sings and the body is trembling, that is a signal that people are coming or something important is about to happen?

Ken_FSU

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Re: JTA planning to seek bids to build, run U2C
« Reply #11 on: February 29, 2020, 08:47:58 PM »
Regarding #2 - track between JRTC and Julia - I may be imagining things, but seem to remember JTA was only going to convert one of the tracks for U2C testing, allowing the other to remain in service for the existing vehicles.

This is incorrect, unfortunately.

Both tracks are going to be gutted from the JRTC to Jefferson Station, and if you want to travel from either the existing Skyway to the JRTC, or from the JRTC to the existing Skyway, you’ll need to download the JTA app, book a clown car, and get off and transfer at a modified Jefferson Station.

JTA plans to brand the JRTC to Jefferson stretch as “Autonomous Avenue.”

Estimated cost of the test track is another $30 million+.

Charles Hunter

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Re: JTA planning to seek bids to build, run U2C
« Reply #12 on: February 29, 2020, 09:19:11 PM »
JTA has gone insane.

thelakelander

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Re: JTA planning to seek bids to build, run U2C
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2020, 08:15:59 AM »
$30 million for four blocks of Skyway conversion? That is insane. That's more than LRT. If these are the numbers coming out, this plan should be stopped. We'd be better modernizing the skyway as a peoplemover, expanding where it really makes sense, aggressively adding TOD around its stations, and feeding it with riders via local bus and BRT lines.
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Ken_FSU

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Re: JTA planning to seek bids to build, run U2C
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2020, 01:53:57 PM »
$30 million for four blocks of Skyway conversion? That is insane. That's more than LRT. If these are the numbers coming out, this plan should be stopped. We'd be better modernizing the skyway as a peoplemover, expanding where it really makes sense, aggressively adding TOD around its stations, and feeding it with riders via local bus and BRT lines.

Doing some digging, it looks like $32.2 million is JTA's estimate for the JRTC to Jefferson Station project (page 9 below).

https://cms7.dot.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/docs/policy-initiatives/automated-vehicles/351541/63-jacksonville-transp-auth-part-1-only.pdf