Author Topic: Jaguars already planning Phase II for Lot J development  (Read 6439 times)

fieldafm

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Re: Jaguars already planning Phase II for Lot J development
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2020, 03:49:58 PM »
Really makes you question the experience and credibility of the individuals in the negotiation room representing the tax payers.




Kerry

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Re: Jaguars already planning Phase II for Lot J development
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2020, 03:53:19 PM »
Stop the insanity and just send a Get Out of Jax offer to the Jags.  They pay us $400 million cash, transfer full ownership of Dailys Place to the City, and they can walk away 10 years early.
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Peter Griffin

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Re: Jaguars already planning Phase II for Lot J development
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2020, 04:07:25 PM »
Stop the insanity and just send a Get Out of Jax offer to the Jags.  They pay us $400 million cash, transfer full ownership of Dailys Place to the City, and they can walk away 10 years early.

Hopefully they'll move to OKC

Kerry

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Re: Jaguars already planning Phase II for Lot J development
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2020, 10:03:38 PM »
Stop the insanity and just send a Get Out of Jax offer to the Jags.  They pay us $400 million cash, transfer full ownership of Dailys Place to the City, and they can walk away 10 years early.

Hopefully they'll move to OKC

OKC doesn't want them.  I'm sure there are some frustrated Cowboy fans but OKC is about maxed out on sports with OU, OSU, Thunder, Remington Park, AAA baseball, Women's College World Series, US Softball Center, US Olympic Rowing Center, and the new soccer-specific stadium to attract MLS...or were you trying to be sarcastic?
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marcuscnelson

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Re: Jaguars already planning Phase II for Lot J development
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2020, 10:40:54 PM »
Stop the insanity and just send a Get Out of Jax offer to the Jags.  They pay us $400 million cash, transfer full ownership of Dailys Place to the City, and they can walk away 10 years early.

As much as I find myself more willing to come to terms with this, I think it was discussed in another thread how most of the city (who, remember, doesn't give a damn about downtown) would never forgive whoever would allow this to happen.

Kerry

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Re: Jaguars already planning Phase II for Lot J development
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2020, 10:55:30 PM »
Breaking news - most of the city doesn't care about the Jags either.  Except for game day and wear your jersey to work day - honestly, how much Jags stuff do you see people wearing?
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jaxlongtimer

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Re: Jaguars already planning Phase II for Lot J development
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2020, 11:40:36 PM »
What's the break down on the $233 million in subsidies previously requested? Seems excessive for pad sites that may or not may be residential/office/hotel, a surface parking lot and an expensive strip mall.

Tax rebate:
- $25 million REV grant (75% over 20 years) for the overall project, based on estimated costs of $67 million for the office building, $77 million for the hotel, and $128 million for the residential tower.

Cash:
- $50 million cash for the city's half of Jacksonville Live!
- $93 million cash for infrastructure ($33 million for general site improvements, $6 million for remediation, $45 million for the built-in parking garages, $8 million for the surface lot)
- $66 million in extra cash in the form of a grant to the Jags/Cordish for agreeing to take on the project

If Jacksonville Live! comes in at less than $100 million, or if infrastructure improvements come in at less than $93 million, the Jags are free to reallocate the remaining publicly subsidized balance into the other private components of the project.

The vague $66 million bonus grant is what feels particularly greedy to me.

As the current deal is structured, the city is footing 50% the bill, and the Jags and Cordish are each footing 25%.

Kill the development grant turning it into a true 33%/33%/33% split, and I think it's a much fairer deal for the city.

Let's not forget the approximate $38 to $50 million to tear down the Hart Bridge ramps plus millions more to build an "innovation" corridor down Bay Street that only leads to the Stadium district and/or other properties the Jags hope to develop (e.g. Shipyards, Metro Park).  As stated in another thread, adjusted for inflation, this project and prior investments in the Stadium and other Jag-friendly projects likely will total over $1 billion in taxpayer investment when all is said and done.

It appears that Khan is getting a great ROI on his contributions to Curry's PAC's.  Other than Curry and Khan, where is the community passion for this project based on this taxpayer investment coming from?

Could this be another Curry boondoggle following his kick-the-can-down-the-road pension plan, JEA sale, Landing, Ford on Bay, etc. demolition derby, Berkman II amusement park, Kids Hope Alliance and School Board referendum fiascos?  Meanwhile, murders hit record highs, droves of the middle class are headed for St. Johns and Nassau, Duval streets are crumbling, parks are underfunded, the NW Quadrant continues to get crumbs, Downtown is barely moving forward and numerous hand picked administrators are embroiled in controversy or worse.  Can someone tell me one positive legacy, to date, of the Curry administration?

When the current economic cycle inevitably comes to an end, the falling tide (e.g. lower property tax revenue and lack of economic development) will fully reveal just how rocky a bottom our mayor has left us right below the water line.

thelakelander

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Re: Jaguars already planning Phase II for Lot J development
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2020, 08:34:28 AM »
Unfortuntely, if you thought the Landing was a failure, you haven't seen anything yet. It cost under $50 million but was at least in the center of downtown, where some businesses like Hooters, Compass Bank and Coastal Cookies could survive despite years of deliberately trying to drive them out of business. Kansas City is still paying for the Power & Light District but at least it's in the middle of downtown, so they get the spill off economy activity that combines with what was already taken place. Just wait till Curry leaves office and someone exposes the real ROI.
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thelakelander

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Re: Jaguars already planning Phase II for Lot J development
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2020, 08:48:54 AM »
Can someone tell me one positive legacy, to date, of the Curry administration?

Jacksonville getting a newspaper back. The Times-Union has been excellent in coverage of the scheme to sell JEA and enrich a small number of connected people in the process.
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Tacachale

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Re: Jaguars already planning Phase II for Lot J development
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2020, 09:06:36 AM »
Can someone tell me one positive legacy, to date, of the Curry administration?

Jacksonville getting a newspaper back. The Times-Union has been excellent in coverage of the scheme to sell JEA and enrich a small number of connected people in the process.

Lol, here here!
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heights unknown

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Re: Jaguars already planning Phase II for Lot J development
« Reply #25 on: January 26, 2020, 10:16:35 AM »
Jacksonville...doomed. Hurts me to say that. I believe, sincerely, though the area doesn't staunchly or fully support them, when and if the Jags leave town, that will not only be the "nail in the coffin" for downtown Jacksonville, but for Jacksonville as a whole.
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bl8jaxnative

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Re: Jaguars already planning Phase II for Lot J development
« Reply #26 on: January 26, 2020, 12:57:38 PM »

I woulnd't underestimate how important the Jags are to the city.   More precisely, I wouldn't underestimate the importance people place on civic pride.  The Jaguars being a obvious focal point for people to show it.

Sinclair Lewis made a career out of writing about our weird obsession with civic pride

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Kerry

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Re: Jaguars already planning Phase II for Lot J development
« Reply #27 on: January 27, 2020, 07:07:54 AM »
Jacksonville...doomed. Hurts me to say that. I believe, sincerely, though the area doesn't staunchly or fully support them, when and if the Jags leave town, that will not only be the "nail in the coffin" for downtown Jacksonville, but for Jacksonville as a whole.

I beg to differ.  The Jags leaving would be the best thing to happen to downtown Jax in 50 years.  It is like getting out of an abusive relationship.  The Jags were supposed to be "for better or worse", but the taxpayers gave the better and the Jags gave the worse.

Imagine where all the money spent on the Jags for 20 years (public, private, and corporate) would have gone if not sent down the NFL's black hole.  The Jags are a luxury item and we can't even afford the necessities.

The NFL promised untold benefits and being on ESPN every week was supposed to deliver jobs, corporate relocations, civic pride, and be an economic boost to all of northeast Florida.  Well, 20 years later none of that happened and all we have to show for it is a lot of debt.  We still have to bail the team out and pay Amazon $20 million to provide us with same-day delivery.

Having the Jags out of the equation will force Jax leadership to refocus on the correct priorities.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 07:26:47 AM by Kerry »
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fieldafm

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Re: Jaguars already planning Phase II for Lot J development
« Reply #28 on: January 27, 2020, 08:58:53 AM »
Stop the insanity and just send a Get Out of Jax offer to the Jags.  They pay us $400 million cash, transfer full ownership of Dailys Place to the City, and they can walk away 10 years early.

I'll give you $100 to move

Quote
The NFL promised untold benefits and being on ESPN every week was supposed to deliver jobs, corporate relocations, civic pride, and be an economic boost to all of northeast Florida.  Well, 20 years later none of that happened and all we have to show for it is a lot of debt.  We still have to bail the team out and pay Amazon $20 million to provide us with same-day delivery.

Perhaps someone without the unbridled disdain and conspiratorial contempt for the Jaguars would have a more nuanced view. A previous member of the Jaguars ownership team, the founder of the Touchdown Jacksonville group that was responsible for bringing the Jaguars to Jacksonville, and at the time the chairman of the Jacksonville Economic Development Commission... Tom Petway was principally responsible for the Fidelity relocation that brought two (and at times three) Fortune 500 headquarters to Jacksonville. 17 years later, Fidelity is about to double its Jacksonville's corporate presence through the acquisition and subsequent relocation of the company headquarters of Worldpay.

Petway's home served as the personal residence of Fidelity chairman Bill Foley and his executive leadership team during their time visiting Jacksonville and speaking to public and private business leaders during the relocation recruitment. Foley like Petway's home so much, he eventually bought it.

Both Petway and Foley have credited Florida's more welcoming corporate culture and lower costs of living (as compared to California) as part of Fidelity's move, but have also always maintained that the Jaguars significantly elevated Jacksonville's corporate profile among CEOs. I've personally heard them say this about a dozen times I can recall off the top of my head. Being someone that actually lived here before and after the Jaguars.. I can tell you UNQUESTIONABLY that from a civic pride and corporate recognition standpoint, the Jaguars have done more to raise Jacksonville's profile than anything I've personally witnessed. Its nice that you flood this board with whiny complaints, but I vividly remember living in the stench of this city when the paper mills permeated an olfactory funk throughout the neighborhoods where I grew up. The Jacksonville of today is night and day different from pre-Jaguars days.

Notwithstanding whatever future incentives will be requested for Lot J and future stadium upgrades (and a vociferous and well-reasoned debate is absolutely necessary in regards to these future asks).... an objective look back and examination of the public money spent on the Jaguars has been demonstrably less than virtually all other NFL cities over the past 30 years (aside from lukewarm and not-particularly serious attempts to move teams from Houston, Baltimore, St Louis and New Orleans to Jacksonville... the NFL expansion talk that led to the Jaguars began here in 1991). 

Lot J deserves intense scrutiny from the general public and elected officials, but for some Johnny-come-lately carpet bagger to churn out such hot garbage about what the Jaguars have meant to Jacksonville as you do simply doesn't line up to the actual experiences of real-life Jaxsons.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2020, 09:08:06 AM by fieldafm »

Peter Griffin

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Re: Jaguars already planning Phase II for Lot J development
« Reply #29 on: January 27, 2020, 09:19:51 AM »
Stop the insanity and just send a Get Out of Jax offer to the Jags.  They pay us $400 million cash, transfer full ownership of Dailys Place to the City, and they can walk away 10 years early.

I'll give you $100 to move

 ;D TOO FUNNY