Author Topic: Roundabouts proposed for Fishweir Creek intersection  (Read 1914 times)

thelakelander

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Roundabouts proposed for Fishweir Creek intersection
« on: January 22, 2020, 12:27:42 PM »
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Two major Riverside/Avondale Historic District intersections are headed for a radical makeover. A public hearing will be held Wednesday, January 22 on a project to transform where Herschel Street and St. Johns Avenue meet.


Full article: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/roundabouts-proposed-for-fishweir-creek-intersection/
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Steve

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Re: Roundabouts proposed for Fishweir Creek intersection
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2020, 12:34:31 PM »
I think overall it's better, but drivers going north on Herschel trying to either make a left on Woodmere or going to the shopping center with Harpoon Louie's are expected to use the roundabout at St John's/Geraldine.

No way that happens in practice. Instead, they'll spin a U-turn on the Fishweir Creek bridge which could be dangerous. I'd argue that moving the southern roundabout to Woodmere would be more practical.

thelakelander

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Re: Roundabouts proposed for Fishweir Creek intersection
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2020, 12:49:52 PM »
My main concern would be the omission of dedicated bike facilities. If they aren't included here, you're looking at Roosevelt being the next north/south corridor.
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JaxAvondale

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Re: Roundabouts proposed for Fishweir Creek intersection
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2020, 01:22:52 PM »
My main concern would be the omission of dedicated bike facilities.

This! I live on Herschel and this is a huge omission.

Charles Hunter

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Re: Roundabouts proposed for Fishweir Creek intersection
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2020, 01:27:13 PM »
I think overall it's better, but drivers going north on Herschel trying to either make a left on Woodmere or going to the shopping center with Harpoon Louie's are expected to use the roundabout at St John's/Geraldine.

No way that happens in practice. Instead, they'll spin a U-turn on the Fishweir Creek bridge which could be dangerous. I'd argue that moving the southern roundabout to Woodmere would be more practical.

I see your point about turning left onto Woodmere, but it seems you could use the St. Johns roundabout to get to the Harpoon Louie's parking lot.

My question is, if you are coming south on Herschel, or coming out of Geraldine, or out of the elementary school, with the tear-drop shape of the north roundabout, how do you go north on St. Johns? Looks like you will have to cross the bridge an use the southern roundabout.  I think this might encourage the impatient types to U-Turn on the bridge.  Of course, the solution to that is to extend the raised median all the way across the bridge.

thelakelander

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Re: Roundabouts proposed for Fishweir Creek intersection
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2020, 01:40:23 PM »
How about no roundabouts? Seems that you could maintain the signals and make safety improvements to the existing intersections. Sometimes I think we get a little overboard with the roundabouts in trying to force them into places where they aren't totally necessary.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Captain Zissou

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Re: Roundabouts proposed for Fishweir Creek intersection
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2020, 01:42:32 PM »
Right Size Avondale!! There are Million Plus houses that will be impacted by this.

Josh

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Re: Roundabouts proposed for Fishweir Creek intersection
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2020, 01:46:53 PM »
No consideration for bike/pedestrian access and will certainly encourage driver's to behave in unintended manners. Yep, sounds like an FDOT design.

Steve

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Re: Roundabouts proposed for Fishweir Creek intersection
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2020, 01:58:10 PM »
My question is, if you are coming south on Herschel, or coming out of Geraldine, or out of the elementary school, with the tear-drop shape of the north roundabout, how do you go north on St. Johns? Looks like you will have to cross the bridge an use the southern roundabout.  I think this might encourage the impatient types to U-Turn on the bridge.  Of course, the solution to that is to extend the raised median all the way across the bridge.

I missed that one - you're right.

And yes, I agree about the bike thing. I can't make the meeting but I wrote into FDOT about my issue and no bike facilities.

While I'm okay with roundabouts and in concept I like the idea here, the more I look at this I feel like unless we can address these issues, we're trying too hard in my opinion.

Steve

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Re: Roundabouts proposed for Fishweir Creek intersection
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2020, 01:59:43 PM »
The ironic thing: FDOT has no bike considerations here, yet look at Hendricks avenue - between two projects they removed a ton of on street parking in order to install bike lanes. I'd argue in that section the parking is more valuable than the bike lane, especially on the older segment from the Square to Riverplace blvd.

I don't get it.

Charles Hunter

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Re: Roundabouts proposed for Fishweir Creek intersection
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2020, 09:47:25 PM »
The ironic thing: FDOT has no bike considerations here, yet look at Hendricks avenue - between two projects they removed a ton of on street parking in order to install bike lanes. I'd argue in that section the parking is more valuable than the bike lane, especially on the older segment from the Square to Riverplace blvd.

I don't get it.

So far, the Bike Lobby hasn't chimed in on the Herschel project, like they did on the SR 13 project?

JaxAvondale

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Re: Roundabouts proposed for Fishweir Creek intersection
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2020, 09:38:22 AM »
There were definitely individuals who chimed in about the bike paths at the meeting. Hopefully, FDOT will make some modifications to the plan.

Florida Power And Light

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Re: Roundabouts proposed for Fishweir Creek intersection
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2020, 08:15:19 AM »
The ironic thing: FDOT has no bike considerations here, yet look at Hendricks avenue - between two projects they removed a ton of on street parking in order to install bike lanes. I'd argue in that section the parking is more valuable than the bike lane, especially on the older segment from the Square to Riverplace blvd.

I don't get it.

So far, the Bike Lobby hasn't chimed in on the Herschel project, like they did on the SR 13 project?

I live in the immediate area- my Trek Marlin hardly ever hits the neighborhood road, pretty crude and unsafe biking area.

Would the lack of Cycling component be cause for Roundabout  legal challenge/ Comp Plan Element grounds?
At one time Duval county had a full time Cycling administrator?

bl8jaxnative

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Re: Roundabouts proposed for Fishweir Creek intersection
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2020, 01:50:55 PM »
The ironic thing: FDOT has no bike considerations here, yet look at Hendricks avenue - between two projects they removed a ton of on street parking in order to install bike lanes. I'd argue in that section the parking is more valuable than the bike lane, especially on the older segment from the Square to Riverplace blvd.

I don't get it.

a) If people want parking, they should pay for it.  FDOT shouldn't be in the business of giving it away.

b) I'm not sure what parking was lost on Hendricks?  How many --> decades<---  back does this go?

Steve

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Re: Roundabouts proposed for Fishweir Creek intersection
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2020, 09:33:20 AM »
a) If people want parking, they should pay for it.  FDOT shouldn't be in the business of giving it away.

Umm...nearly EVERY road in Jacksonville had parallel parking on it through the 1930's. Nearly every other city also has this.

b) I'm not sure what parking was lost on Hendricks?  How many --> decades<---  back does this go?

Hendricks between the Square and Prudential drive was parallel parking on nearly the entire stretch from as far back as I've seen pictures until when FDOT completed the terrible reconstruction. Was that 2010?