Author Topic: Closer to Hart Bridge ramps coming down  (Read 5617 times)

Snaketoz

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Re: Closer to Hart Bridge ramps coming down
« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2020, 08:32:42 PM »
I wonder if coronavirus screws with the numbers Curry's budget numbers? With the JEA fallout and then COVID-19, the future budget has taken a couple of devastating uppercuts.
Curry had screwy budget numbers long before coronavirus.  I like how he saved us huge sums of money on The Landing.  Instead of spending a relatively small sum on fixing-up the place, and by his statements "wasting taxpayer money", he paid too much for the place and tore it down.  He really got over on that Sleiman guy huh?  Lenny Curry is a man who will go down in history as the king of city owned vacant lots.

jaxlongtimer

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Re: Closer to Hart Bridge ramps coming down
« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2020, 10:31:49 PM »
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I like how he saved us huge sums of money on The Landing.  Instead of spending a relatively small sum on fixing-up the place, and by his statements "wasting taxpayer money", he paid too much for the place and tore it down.  He really got over on that Sleiman guy huh?

With the whole COVID 19 virus killing off retail centers for months, Sleiman lucked out with Curry's generous offer.  Imagine the fire sale offer Curry might have gotten now.  I am sure Sleiman is using his City gifted $15 million to lick his wounds on his other centers, not likely that he needs the help.

Ken_FSU

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Re: Closer to Hart Bridge ramps coming down
« Reply #32 on: April 10, 2020, 01:47:00 PM »
Had to run to the office this morning to pick up some mail and forward my calls.

They've reduced the Hart Bridge down to one lane for the entire length of the bridge.

Gonna be a nightmare when the city opens back up.

Even better, the detour dumps you right into the line for covid-19 testing.

Classic Jax.

vicupstate

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Re: Closer to Hart Bridge ramps coming down
« Reply #33 on: April 10, 2020, 02:23:51 PM »
How long is the demolition suppose to take?
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Ken_FSU

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Re: Closer to Hart Bridge ramps coming down
« Reply #34 on: April 10, 2020, 02:27:58 PM »
How long is the demolition suppose to take?

Through end of 2021.

Peter Griffin

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Re: Closer to Hart Bridge ramps coming down
« Reply #35 on: April 10, 2020, 02:30:54 PM »
They've reduced the Hart Bridge down to one lane for the entire length of the bridge.

That won't be the permanent configuration. The detour was developed before the COVID site was developed (before COVID was a widely known issue at all, for that matter)

Ken_FSU

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Re: Closer to Hart Bridge ramps coming down
« Reply #36 on: April 10, 2020, 02:56:42 PM »
Short video I took from the Hart Bridge detour this morning.

Detour traffic in the left lane, covid-19 testing in the right line.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMgy3CWzDZo

bl8jaxnative

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Re: Closer to Hart Bridge ramps coming down
« Reply #37 on: April 13, 2020, 12:01:43 PM »
I wonder if coronavirus screws with the numbers Curry's budget numbers? With the JEA fallout and then COVID-19, the future budget has taken a couple of devastating uppercuts.
Curry had screwy budget numbers long before coronavirus.  I like how he saved us huge sums of money on The Landing.  Instead of spending a relatively small sum on fixing-up the place, and by his statements "wasting taxpayer money", he paid too much for the place and tore it down.  He really got over on that Sleiman guy huh?  Lenny Curry is a man who will go down in history as the king of city owned vacant lots.

He did not pay too much for the place.  The city owned it. 

The city council chose that the best option was to buy out the lease holder Sleiman Properties.   A key issue is was the expensive promised the city made to Sleiman as part of the lease.  This is an expense they undertook regardless of demolition to mitigate the city's liability.

Had the city not demo it, the risk is that the politicians like Curry would just turn around keep it limping along until they were desperate enough to yet again over promise and over pay for a big development. 

vicupstate

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Re: Closer to Hart Bridge ramps coming down
« Reply #38 on: April 13, 2020, 12:50:17 PM »
I wonder if coronavirus screws with the numbers Curry's budget numbers? With the JEA fallout and then COVID-19, the future budget has taken a couple of devastating uppercuts.
Curry had screwy budget numbers long before coronavirus.  I like how he saved us huge sums of money on The Landing.  Instead of spending a relatively small sum on fixing-up the place, and by his statements "wasting taxpayer money", he paid too much for the place and tore it down.  He really got over on that Sleiman guy huh?  Lenny Curry is a man who will go down in history as the king of city owned vacant lots.

He did not pay too much for the place.  The city owned it. 

The city council chose that the best option was to buy out the lease holder Sleiman Properties.   A key issue is was the expensive promised the city made to Sleiman as part of the lease.  This is an expense they undertook regardless of demolition to mitigate the city's liability.

Had the city not demo it, the risk is that the politicians like Curry would just turn around keep it limping along until they were desperate enough to yet again over promise and over pay for a big development. 

Technically, the city didn't own the building, only the land. In theory they would have owned the building when the lease expired, but that was decades away. 
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Tacachale

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Re: Closer to Hart Bridge ramps coming down
« Reply #39 on: April 13, 2020, 02:49:29 PM »
I wonder if coronavirus screws with the numbers Curry's budget numbers? With the JEA fallout and then COVID-19, the future budget has taken a couple of devastating uppercuts.
Curry had screwy budget numbers long before coronavirus.  I like how he saved us huge sums of money on The Landing.  Instead of spending a relatively small sum on fixing-up the place, and by his statements "wasting taxpayer money", he paid too much for the place and tore it down.  He really got over on that Sleiman guy huh?  Lenny Curry is a man who will go down in history as the king of city owned vacant lots.

He did not pay too much for the place.  The city owned it. 

The city council chose that the best option was to buy out the lease holder Sleiman Properties.   A key issue is was the expensive promised the city made to Sleiman as part of the lease.  This is an expense they undertook regardless of demolition to mitigate the city's liability.

Had the city not demo it, the risk is that the politicians like Curry would just turn around keep it limping along until they were desperate enough to yet again over promise and over pay for a big development.

Totally false. Sleiman owned the building and had payed $5 million for it. The city payed $15 million for the building plus another $10 million and counting to evict 30 businesses, demolish the structure, settle the East Lot litigation the city initiated, and some engineering and landscaping that as of yet hasn't even started. The city didn't have any other expenses tied to the Landing other than the parking element that never was settled and basic maintenance they'd been neglecting (and wouldn't have cost $25 million).

If the city hadn't demolished the building, we wouldn't have spent a bunch of taxpayer money for an empty lot that can't even be called a lawn yet. That's about the balance of it.
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tufsu1

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Re: Closer to Hart Bridge ramps coming down
« Reply #40 on: April 13, 2020, 04:17:13 PM »
^ thankfully the lawn is coming soon - in time for everyone to enjoy it from their homes ;)

bl8jaxnative

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Re: Closer to Hart Bridge ramps coming down
« Reply #41 on: April 27, 2020, 08:40:35 AM »

 Sleiman owned the building and had payed $5 million for it.


Almost $6, actually.   Weird deal.  I didn't realize folks were foolish enough to buy buildings that were on land that they didn't own.   Either way, it doesn't negate that there was a lease between Slieman and the city that had to be resolved.






If the city hadn't demolished the building, we wouldn't have spent a bunch of taxpayer money for an empty lot that can't even be called a lawn yet. That's about the balance of it.

The  lease and all the other legal liabilities would have to be settled.     All of those other costs do not go away by not tearing the building down.   

And all those legal liabilities, if you don't buy out Sleiman - are sitting there, waiting to be litigated.  Maybe it turns out for the better if the city keeps things going.  But it could've been a whole lot worse.

Either way, it's down.  Unless y'll have a time machine, it cant' be undone.


Question - What gets done with the site going forward?  They're pouring the black dirt and flatting it out as we speak.    Does it remain that way?  Should the city sell off the land to ensure it doesn't get itself into this sort of mess again?   Something else?

thelakelander

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Re: Closer to Hart Bridge ramps coming down
« Reply #42 on: April 27, 2020, 09:27:59 AM »
Question - What gets done with the site going forward?  They're pouring the black dirt and flatting it out as we speak.    Does it remain that way?

It will be a grass lot for the foreseeable future and at some point in time, they'll likely lease or sell part of the land to a developer to build a smaller version of the Landing.

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Should the city sell off the land to ensure it doesn't get itself into this sort of mess again?   Something else?

The city is getting back into "this mess" with the same deal at Lot J. It's just Khan and Cordish instead of Sleiman and a lot more risk for the taxpayer.
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vicupstate

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Re: Closer to Hart Bridge ramps coming down
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2020, 09:37:40 AM »
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I didn't realize folks were foolish enough to buy buildings that were on land that they didn't own.
 

Constructing, owning and selling buildings that are on leased land is quite common.
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bl8jaxnative

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Re: Closer to Hart Bridge ramps coming down
« Reply #44 on: May 05, 2020, 11:00:45 AM »
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I didn't realize folks were foolish enough to buy buildings that were on land that they didn't own.
 

Constructing, owning and selling buildings that are on leased land is quite common.

Thank you.  Ya, I had filed them away as being a residential thing.  This despite for years watching Sears sell off the good stores they had left & knowing a smidge about retail leasing. 

Question - Do we know what type of lease it was?  Do we know how Sleiman had things set up?  I ask because part of putting itself in a bad position - it being JAX - is that they may have been at risk of Sleiman defaulting and the lenders going after the land.