Author Topic: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020  (Read 88535 times)

thelakelander

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #420 on: November 20, 2020, 08:32:32 PM »
Thanks! Oh that's really wild if they couldn't stick to and follow the agenda.

Just finished it. What a cluster.
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marcuscnelson

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #421 on: November 20, 2020, 08:41:43 PM »
Waited the day to see how things were playing out after last night's meeting. Also a good article from Nate Monroe.

If you ask me, this new deal about remediation taking three years is somewhat of a bombshell. Suddenly this doesn't really seem all that urgent anymore. I think I'd be preaching to the choir to point out how Lenny Curry has fundamentally damaged our reputation with the amount of distrust he's sown towards both City Hall and the Jaguars, so I won't go further there. Also some good points from Ken and others on how the Jaguars failing to be more upfront about what they actually wanted and then getting upset about some opposition to the largest sum of public subsidy this city has ever considered didn't help matters.

If it were all up to me, with the information we have now, I'd propose this:

Quote
Cut the current deal down to getting remediation done. But as much of it as possible. Lot J, the Shipyards, whatever in that area needs it. If that means $100m spent, then do it. Hopefully get started by early 2021 to finish in late '23/early '24.

The Jaguars need to spend the next two years getting their house in order, on and off the field. Actually have some real blueprints for Lot J and the Shipyards, and figure out exactly what they want from taxpayers for Stadium renovations. Ideally, the city is taking this time to get the NPS to agree to moving Metro Park, and finding the money to build the new park + museum district. Hopefully, the end result is something lovely and iconic, but at least something decent.

After a DIA review, and Council review (optional), Put a referendum on the ballot, either in 2022 or March 2023 for the combined cost of building the developments + stadium and a 30-year lease extension. Make the stakes clear, that this is about whether we want the Jags or we don't. It's going to be a gigantic number, but at least we know what that number is, and can make one yes or no decision as a city. If we say yes, contracts sign, vertical construction starts a few months later. If we say no, then I guess the next mayor could master plan the area or just offer up the parcels to whoever is willing to buy and build themselves. At that point either the Jags figure out something else or start looking for somewhere else to go.

That's just my amateur opinion, vote me in '23. (/sarcasm)
« Last Edit: November 20, 2020, 08:44:09 PM by marcuscnelson »
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jaxlongtimer

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #422 on: November 23, 2020, 12:08:29 AM »
Thanks! Oh that's really wild if they couldn't stick to and follow the agenda.

Just finished it. What a cluster.

We need to start a reality TV show called the "Real City Council Members of Jacksonville"  8).  Can't make this stuff up.

My observations:

* Brian Hughes lost his cool more than anyone so he comes off living up to his reputation for "winning by intimidation."  His defensiveness appears to be derived from the perception (reality?) that the Administration hasn't delivered responsibly.  I also didn't find him convincing in his explanation for why this deal didn't go to DIA from Day One.  It's clear to me the Mayor wanted to handle this directly with his buddy, Khan, a major faux pas after the JEA fiasco.
* Hazouri lost control of the agenda but kept relatively calm and unfazed (appears to have upped his zen before this meeting) through the evening and even took responsibility for the meeting not meeting expectations.  To be fair. most of the Council members commented on the amendments offered making them partially responsible for the meeting getting sidetracked.  Anyone of them could have earlier addressed that the meeting was moving away from the agenda but didn't until near the end.  But as chair, Hazouri is most responsible.  Hazouri did manage to drill the point multiple times that the Administration was not being transparent or responsive enough and scored points when the Jag's/Aministration admitted they had already agreed to have DIA review the deal but no one told Hazouri or others on the Council before the meeting.  That info, alone, could have rendered all the talk about the amendments, which consumed most of the meeting, moot.
* Lamping was factual in his presentation although it was clear he was frustrated with the process as evidenced by his comment (which also came across as possibly a veiled threat) about not willing to go back to the beginning of the process.
* Not at all a fan of Harden but he managed to come across as keeping his cool too.  He seemed unusually contrite for him.  I guess that's a good way to behave when you are asking for a $233 million gift.  Would love to know what Khan pays him yearly in fees  ;D.
* The poor City Council auditor!  She could mostly only sit there uncomfortably but coolly amidst the crossfire in which her name/position was bandied about by all sides to suit their purpose.  She gets credit for carefully selecting her words when she spoke so as not to offend anyone.  She deserves whatever the City is paying her.  A consummate professional.  If there is a hero in all this, it is clearly her.
* Lori Boyer:  Most of my comments about the Council auditor apply to her although I am concerned she may be more bending to the politics of this in the end based on some other DIA decisions to date.
* Love the public comment section. Always entertaining and refreshing to hear a citizen bluntly call out how many (most?) citizens think about how the City is run - via backroom dealing and/or to benefit major donors to campaigns.

I stand by my earlier post regarding who is most responsible for this cluster:


The blame for this mess starts with the Mayor's mismanagement of the entire process.  He acts like he is the King of Jax and makes little to no effort to be transparent, solicit outside input, subject himself to constructive criticism or to be collaborative or build consensus.  Its a replay of JEA - a prescription for disastrous results.  If he didn't have the Council under his thumb at the time, the pension plan overhaul would have resulted in a similar mess.

But, I would also add Paul Harden and Mark Lamping.  Harden has traditionally "owned" City Hall and should have been attuned better than anyone as to what would happen when this hit the Council.  My guess is he is so used to ramming things through the Council with the Mayor's support and his contributions to Council campaigns that he failed to re-calibrate that maybe some on the Council are changed persons after JEA and might actually resist his efforts.  Lamping has been to the well here enough times and hobnobbed with the Council members regularly, that he, too, should have had the sense to demand involvement of the Council, in addition to the Mayor, from the get-go.  Especially after JEA and given the size of the ask.

Basically, the Mayor, Harden and Lamping seemed to have been banking on the "old way" of doing things with the Council.  Post-JEA, maybe many on the Council and the voters are on a new plane.  Let's hope so.

For more fun, here is a post mortem of the meeting with both Hazouri and Curry on WJXT's "This Week in Jacksonville": https://www.news4jax.com/this-week-in-jacksonville/2020/11/22/jacksonville-city-council-president-mayor-take-a-look-at-local-issues-us-rep-al-lawson/.

Interesting that Hazouri says Lot J must have a 2/3 vote of approval from the Council due to the source of the City's funding.  That could make the vote a bit more interesting.  Curry just took the position to let the process run its course and expressed confidence the Council would approve the project in the end.  Laughably, Curry says he has always run the City in a "nonpartisan" way!  Really?!

Notably, Hazouri straight out said he doesn't trust the Mayor's aid, Elsbury, so he aligns with the take of posters here as evidenced by the take below:

I was at the town hall in San Marco last night and I left feeling so insulted by the city.  The rep for the mayor's office, Jordan Elsbury, kept talking about how the development was essential to bring in larger scale events and conventions.  The mayor's office has been actively tanking our prospects as a convention destination for the past few years.  I couldn't tell if he knew this and was lying to me, or he generally didn't understand the impacts of what his office has done with the Ford on Bay RFP.  Additionally, calling this downtown development is a laugh.  The reps from the Jaguars were at least calling this "a new neighborhood" that would provide jobs for people living in the eastside, but the city is arguing that this will help the actual CBD.  He also touted the demolition of the landing as progress toward activating our waterfront.  Again.... is he straight lying to us or does he just not get it?
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 12:55:13 AM by jaxlongtimer »

marcuscnelson

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #423 on: November 23, 2020, 01:21:14 AM »
^ Decent observations. Hope those speaking in public comment vote next time around.

Looking at This Week in Jax:
  • Sad to see Hazouri say that we shouldn't look at the Four Seasons or stadium reno until we've "resolved" Lot J. Shame to not see support for actually getting that stuff handled together.
  • TIL it takes a 2/3 vote of Council to approve Lot J. If my math is right that's at least 13 out of 19.
  • Stressing the need for an equal playing field, which is true, I guess.
  • Hazouri doesn't trust Jordan Elsbury. Still feels the city is getting the shaft.
  • Curry accidentally said "Do we want, as a city, to do business with our owner…" referring to Khan. Tongue twist, or Freudian slip?
  • Curry doesn't regret pushing back the DCPS sales tax a year. "The important thing is that we got it done."
  • He's totally fine, "no issue" with the city voting to take power over JEA's board from him.
  • It looks like there's a "CURRY WINS IT" headline framed on the wall of whatever room he's in, I think at his house.
  • "I've always governed and led our city in a nonpartisan way." This is a joke, right?
  • On crime (paraphrasing): "This is almost entirely gangs and the drug trade, this isn't the Wild West and we don't expect drive-by shootings in random neighborhoods, nonetheless we are investing in technologies to stop it and police it and arrest people. We're also investing in after school programs, to give young people tools to make the right decision vs a gang decision."
Seems to me like the priorities are a bit backwards. Investing in more "technologies" and arresting more people clearly isn't working. Especially seeing how things are going lately, maybe the bulk of the focus needs to be on preventing criminals in the first place. Not letting people get into such a desperate position that a gang or dealing seems attractive. But what do I know.

Edit: I see you edited your comment with things I also ended up saying. All in agreement here.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2020, 01:24:18 AM by marcuscnelson »
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thelakelander

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #424 on: November 24, 2020, 06:57:51 AM »
Quote
Jaguars president: TIAA Bank Field upgrades needed before lease extension

In an exclusive interview Monday, Lamping responded to numerous inquiries about why the Jaguars have not agreed to extend the lease during discussions with City Council on the Lot J development proposal. Any lease extension would require three-quarters majority approval of NFL owners, and Lamping said there’d be no chance of acceptance without a major stadium renovation. He added that a more vibrant downtown through the Lot J development next to TIAA Bank Field — currently being discussed and soon up for a vote by City Council — also makes that approval more appealing.

Full article: https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/local/2020/11/24/jacksonville-jaguars-stadium-upgrades-needed-lease-extension-tiaa-bank-field/6400288002/
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fsu813

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #425 on: November 24, 2020, 07:04:28 AM »
Seems logical, as someone else mentioned previously, to bundle up all the asks, make the stakes clear, then make a decision. Otherwise, coming back to COJ in a few years, with yet another ask, this time for stadium upgrades to enable a lease extension, is going to be very difficult for the public to stomach. Bad optics.

Just rip off the bandaid.

[BTW, this is Bill Hoff. Got locked out of my account, couldn't figure out my rescue email, found access to my old account]
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 07:07:37 AM by fsu813 »

Steve

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #426 on: November 24, 2020, 09:16:09 AM »
I'm glad we're finally discussing the elephant in the room here.

To me it's a waste of time to talk about Lot J without at least including the stadium. Personally, I feel like this is building a new shiny garage next to a house that needs renovation. Fix the house first.

If the proposal was $233M for the stadium, it would be a MUCH different conversation.

The more and more I see this, Lamping seems to have a major disconnect with perceptions among the residents here.

WarDamJagFan

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #427 on: November 24, 2020, 09:23:15 AM »
Well it's only been a few years since my last post here. Have still kept up reading all the forums and my goodness they are SO much better with Stephen Dare out of the picture.

That all said, a few of my thoughts as I was originally against Lot J due to the perceived financial fleecing the city was getting in addition to this whole deal looking more and more like a Shady Lenny JEA duplicate. I'm now for the development and here's a list as to why:

1) While the Jags as a football team have been the worst in the NFL the past decade, the City of Jax has been mismanaged even worse and for the last 5 decades. There is literally not a worse downtown that comes to mind.
2) The Jags came to Jax in 1995 so what sort of growth have we seen as a city since that point?
3) Less river-front dining and entertainment options in 2020 than 1995.
4) A sky-way express to nowhere is still a sky-way express to nowhere
5) A comic-book looking jail still overlooking the St Johns
6) The skeletal remains of Berkman still standing strong 14 years later
7) A $350M courthouse in exchange for demolishing the old courthouse
8) $20M to turn the Landing into a cow pasture
9) Still-contaminated shipyards
10) 3 Residential towers (4th under construction by Baptist)
11) 0 Office towers (only considering North/South Bank)
12) I lost count of the number of buildings demolished and turned into vacant concrete storage
13) North of $2.5 Billion spent since 2000 in revitalization projects and this is what we have to show for it. A DT that is literally more dead than it was 25 years ago.

I say all that to say this. The city has had its chances over and over and over to make moves to get this town out of a rut when it comes to realizing our potential. We have a frigin river running through the middle of our downtown and you could still find more water-front entertainment in Bozeman, Montana. Let the International man of mustache mystery get to work on his vision for this visionless city. We've been trying far too long with COJ politicians executing their "plans" for growth and the results speak for themselves. At this point, it's not like we have anything to lose.

vicupstate

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #428 on: November 24, 2020, 09:59:43 AM »
Quote
I say all that to say this. The city has had its chances over and over and over to make moves to get this town out of a rut when it comes to realizing our potential. We have a frigin river running through the middle of our downtown and you could still find more water-front entertainment in Bozeman, Montana. Let the International man of mustache mystery get to work on his vision for this visionless city. We've been trying far too long with COJ politicians executing their "plans" for growth and the results speak for themselves. At this point, it's not like we have anything to lose.

You have hundreds of millions of dollars to lose. There is no guarantee than long-term Lot J will be any more successful than The Landing was. Even if it is, it won't do much for the true DT and will in fact be a competitor/impediment to DT.

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WarDamJagFan

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #429 on: November 24, 2020, 10:16:33 AM »
Quote
I say all that to say this. The city has had its chances over and over and over to make moves to get this town out of a rut when it comes to realizing our potential. We have a frigin river running through the middle of our downtown and you could still find more water-front entertainment in Bozeman, Montana. Let the International man of mustache mystery get to work on his vision for this visionless city. We've been trying far too long with COJ politicians executing their "plans" for growth and the results speak for themselves. At this point, it's not like we have anything to lose.

You have hundreds of millions of dollars to lose. There is no guarantee than long-term Lot J will be any more successful than The Landing was. Even if it is, it won't do much for the true DT and will in fact be a competitor/impediment to DT.

No matter how bad things are, don't ever think that they can't get worse.   


I'm not dismissing the numbers nor am I dismissing the risk as my final comment on that previous post was more banter than an actual question. There's never a guarantee anything you develop will be successful. History has proven that time and time again. Now perhaps I've missed it, but what sort of grand vision has the most recent DIA or City Council members laid out for Jax? The last major project proposed within the core (that I can remember) was Sleiman's proposal to completely redo the Landing. But yet, once again, city politics got in the way and now look what we have to show for it. A lawn. Yawn.

Steve

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #430 on: November 24, 2020, 10:19:47 AM »
Now perhaps I've missed it, but what sort of grand vision has the most recent DIA or City Council members laid out for Jax?

You're not wrong here. Look at the whole MOSH thing. Conceptually I'm fine with it....but there's no cohesive plan.

Now that said, I don't really want to write Khan a giant check and say, "I trust you."

WarDamJagFan

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #431 on: November 24, 2020, 10:24:33 AM »
Now perhaps I've missed it, but what sort of grand vision has the most recent DIA or City Council members laid out for Jax?

You're not wrong here. Look at the whole MOSH thing. Conceptually I'm fine with it....but there's no cohesive plan.

Now that said, I don't really want to write Khan a giant check and say, "I trust you."



Won't disagree with you there. But what are our options at this point? Stick to the same-ol-same-ol and hope that people within the COJ can do something they've never been able to accomplish and build out this city? Or, trust someone who has been TERRIBLE with his football team but seemingly quite successful in everything else he's done? New approaches are risky but I think we've given the city enough chances up to this point to prove their worth.

JaxAvondale

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #432 on: November 24, 2020, 10:26:57 AM »
I'm glad we're finally discussing the elephant in the room here.

To me it's a waste of time to talk about Lot J without at least including the stadium. Personally, I feel like this is building a new shiny garage next to a house that needs renovation. Fix the house first.

If the proposal was $233M for the stadium, it would be a MUCH different conversation.

The more and more I see this, Lamping seems to have a major disconnect with perceptions among the residents here.

Agreed! Just come out and say what you need. While my professional position is all teams need stadium improvements in order to generate revenue for both the owners and players, the city leaders need to be more forceful with questions and answers regarding any deal.

heights unknown

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #433 on: November 24, 2020, 10:35:05 AM »
Well it's only been a few years since my last post here. Have still kept up reading all the forums and my goodness they are SO much better with Stephen Dare out of the picture.

That all said, a few of my thoughts as I was originally against Lot J due to the perceived financial fleecing the city was getting in addition to this whole deal looking more and more like a Shady Lenny JEA duplicate. I'm now for the development and here's a list as to why:

1) While the Jags as a football team have been the worst in the NFL the past decade, the City of Jax has been mismanaged even worse and for the last 5 decades. There is literally not a worse downtown that comes to mind.
2) The Jags came to Jax in 1995 so what sort of growth have we seen as a city since that point?
3) Less river-front dining and entertainment options in 2020 than 1995.
4) A sky-way express to nowhere is still a sky-way express to nowhere
5) A comic-book looking jail still overlooking the St Johns
6) The skeletal remains of Berkman still standing strong 14 years later
7) A $350M courthouse in exchange for demolishing the old courthouse
8) $20M to turn the Landing into a cow pasture
9) Still-contaminated shipyards
10) 3 Residential towers (4th under construction by Baptist)
11) 0 Office towers (only considering North/South Bank)
12) I lost count of the number of buildings demolished and turned into vacant concrete storage
13) North of $2.5 Billion spent since 2000 in revitalization projects and this is what we have to show for it. A DT that is literally more dead than it was 25 years ago.

I say all that to say this. The city has had its chances over and over and over to make moves to get this town out of a rut when it comes to realizing our potential. We have a frigin river running through the middle of our downtown and you could still find more water-front entertainment in Bozeman, Montana. Let the International man of mustache mystery get to work on his vision for this visionless city. We've been trying far too long with COJ politicians executing their "plans" for growth and the results speak for themselves. At this point, it's not like we have anything to lose.
Amen WarDam, AMEN. Agree whole heartedlly; "Landing Property turned into a cow pasture.......LOLOLOL...sad but true. Let the moustached man from Benghazi "do his thing;" yes, give him a chance. Maybe we will see office towers, more residential towers, restaurants and dining on the river, retail in and around downtown and maybe another mall/shopping center downtown that will be a prosperous success! Amen.
Quote
I say all that to say this. The city has had its chances over and over and over to make moves to get this town out of a rut when it comes to realizing our potential. We have a frigin river running through the middle of our downtown and you could still find more water-front entertainment in Bozeman, Montana. Let the International man of mustache mystery get to work on his vision for this visionless city. We've been trying far too long with COJ politicians executing their "plans" for growth and the results speak for themselves. At this point, it's not like we have anything to lose.

You have hundreds of millions of dollars to lose. There is no guarantee than long-term Lot J will be any more successful than The Landing was. Even if it is, it won't do much for the true DT and will in fact be a competitor/impediment to DT.

No matter how bad things are, don't ever think that they can't get worse.   
Pessimism? Sheesh; not disagreeing or disrespecting, but give the moustached man from La Mancha a chance.
Quote
I say all that to say this. The city has had its chances over and over and over to make moves to get this town out of a rut when it comes to realizing our potential. We have a frigin river running through the middle of our downtown and you could still find more water-front entertainment in Bozeman, Montana. Let the International man of mustache mystery get to work on his vision for this visionless city. We've been trying far too long with COJ politicians executing their "plans" for growth and the results speak for themselves. At this point, it's not like we have anything to lose.

You have hundreds of millions of dollars to lose. There is no guarantee than long-term Lot J will be any more successful than The Landing was. Even if it is, it won't do much for the true DT and will in fact be a competitor/impediment to DT.

No matter how bad things are, don't ever think that they can't get worse.   


I'm not dismissing the numbers nor am I dismissing the risk as my final comment on that previous post was more banter than an actual question. There's never a guarantee anything you develop will be successful. History has proven that time and time again. Now perhaps I've missed it, but what sort of grand vision has the most recent DIA or City Council members laid out for Jax? The last major project proposed within the core (that I can remember) was Sleiman's proposal to completely redo the Landing. But yet, once again, city politics got in the way and now look what we have to show for it. A lawn. Yawn.
LOLOL...agree.
Now perhaps I've missed it, but what sort of grand vision has the most recent DIA or City Council members laid out for Jax?

You're not wrong here. Look at the whole MOSH thing. Conceptually I'm fine with it....but there's no cohesive plan.

Now that said, I don't really want to write Khan a giant check and say, "I trust you."

I don't think he's saying write Khan a giant check and go along with anything (development, etc.) that he lays out to the city or on the table, because Khan had better have a firm,  workable plan for our city, and our city leaders must be smart enough not to write out that "big giant check," unless the plan is well thought out, thought through, and we're getting the big bang for the bucks.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2020, 10:39:55 AM by heights unknown »
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marcuscnelson

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #434 on: November 24, 2020, 11:00:31 AM »
So the other shoe drops, eh? I had no idea the other NFL owners have to approve a lease extension, but I guess it makes sense. It's almost certainly time for a package deal and a referendum, in my opinion (that was me Bill). Get remediation done now, let the people decide if they want a football team and all the ancillary development, and then either start after we approve it or just go so we can sell the land.

Hello WarDamJagFan, let's break it down:

1) While the Jags as a football team have been the worst in the NFL the past decade, the City of Jax has been mismanaged even worse and for the last 5 decades. There is literally not a worse downtown that comes to mind.
Responsibility for this falls on a lot of people. The voters, in a sense, for being swayed by slick campaigns without substance (Peyton, Curry). Parties, for having poor candidates (Brown). The people in those administrations, for not having a cohesive plan. JTA, which I'll go into later.
Quote
2) The Jags came to Jax in 1995 so what sort of growth have we seen as a city since that point?
We've seen a lot of growth! The issue is that the bulk of said growth has not been in the urban core of downtown. Brooklyn has improved greatly since 1995, St. Johns Town Center has become a regional shopping destination, plus plenty of other areas.
Quote
3) Less river-front dining and entertainment options in 2020 than 1995.
We did this to ourselves by electing and reelecting Lenny Curry after his ridiculous nonsense with Sleiman. That plus the lack of a serious master plan for downtown that directed investment in a way to attract restaurants, which has been discussed at length here.
Quote
4) A sky-way express to nowhere is still a sky-way express to nowhere
This is where JTA comes up. JTA lost out on $100m in Better Jacksonville Plan money with an insane bid to build BRT with massive stations all over town. Then spent over a decade with plans for a gigantic sprawling transit center on the books, before finally giving up for something much more reasonable, which only finished this year. They've failed to lead any charge on returning passenger rail to downtown. They've failed to actually make the Skyway an urban core transit spine, by competing with themselves and running buses down the Skyway's routes. They don't work with the city to make sure that investment happens around Skyway stations. And now they want to make the same mistake twice by, as an article said, replacing the magical tech of the '70s with the magical tech of the '10s in the form of the U2C, which for whatever reason they've decided should happen hell or high water.
Quote
5) A comic-book looking jail still overlooking the St Johns
I keep hearing people say this, but I can't help but ask: do you really feel like moving the jail is worth $300m+ in taxpayer money right now? Aren't there more worthwhile things to do with that kind of money first?
Quote
6) The skeletal remains of Berkman still standing strong 14 years later
This is fair, it's really odd how this ended up in court and then just sitting there for so long.
Quote
7) A $350M courthouse in exchange for demolishing the old courthouse
Adaptive reuse was discussed at length here, but of course, this is Lenny Curry's Jacksonville and at the end of the day he wanted it gone. It's possible the Jaguars did too in order to prevent competition at their developments out east.
Quote
8) $20M to turn the Landing into a cow pasture
See above.
Quote
9) Still-contaminated shipyards
It's expensive to remediate, although I've brought up a few times that a deal to get this done should be signed before we have a referendum on all the Jags developments
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10) 3 Residential towers (4th under construction by Baptist)
11) 0 Office towers (only considering North/South Bank)
Part of this was the economy.
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12) I lost count of the number of buildings demolished and turned into vacant concrete storage
13) North of $2.5 Billion spent since 2000 in revitalization projects and this is what we have to show for it. A DT that is literally more dead than it was 25 years ago.
It all comes back to the leadership we chose, and the people running our transit agency. Again, it's been discussed at length here how the city hasn't appropriately coordinated those investments in a way that encourages private investment. We've been addicted to big expensive game-changers, and obviously that hasn't changed the game.

Heights, I don't think there's any need to call Khan a "moustached man from Benghazi," that's just disrespectful. Putting that aside, almost everyone here agrees on how there has not been a coordinated master plan or vision for Downtown Jacksonville, and that our current leadership has utterly failed to offer one. The challenge is making that clear to both the current leadership and the voters who will choose future leaders. I've said before that with what we know now, this seems like the optional solution going forward:

Cut the current deal down to getting remediation done. But as much of it as possible. Lot J, the Shipyards, whatever in that area needs it. If that means $100m spent, then do it. Hopefully get started by early 2021 to finish in late '23/early '24.

The Jaguars need to spend the next two years getting their house in order, on and off the field. Actually have some real blueprints for Lot J and the Shipyards, and figure out exactly what they want from taxpayers for Stadium renovations. Ideally, the city is taking this time to get the NPS to agree to moving Metro Park, and finding the money to build the new park + museum district. Hopefully, the end result is something lovely and iconic, but at least something decent.

After a DIA review, and Council review (optional), put a referendum on the ballot, either in November 2022 or March 2023 for the combined cost of building the developments + stadium and a 30-year lease extension. Make the stakes clear, that this is about whether we want the Jags or we don't. It's going to be a gigantic number, but at least we know what that number is, and can make one yes or no decision as a city. If we say yes, contracts sign, vertical construction starts a few months later. If we say no, then I guess the next mayor could master plan the area or just offer up the parcels to whoever is willing to buy and build themselves. At that point either the Jags figure out something else or start looking for somewhere else to go.

That's just my amateur opinion, vote me in '23. (/sarcasm)
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey