Author Topic: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020  (Read 7240 times)

Ken_FSU

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #60 on: November 07, 2019, 01:03:47 PM »
JTA can't even get a bikeshare system up and running so if you guys want to fantasize about taking some kind train/tram to Lot J have at it. It's never going to happen.

It's pure fantasy.

We're already betting the farm on clown cars.

They won't be able to drive in mixed traffic or outpace a businessman walking with a limp, but if the drug dealer sitting in your lap happens to shoot you, the airport will be notified via fiber-optic cable.

Peter Griffin

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #61 on: November 07, 2019, 01:06:02 PM »
Psssh, nobody would use it!

Oh wait, somebody WOULD use it? Hmm, better pivot...

Psssh! It'll never get built!

Kerry is never incorrect. His pessimism knows no bounds, nor does it ever fail to be the source of absolute truth in all things Jacksonville!

thelakelander

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #62 on: November 07, 2019, 01:54:49 PM »
Orlando has already beat you with the autonomous shuttle service thing.  You can't take this thing serious for a realistic mover of high volume capacity in a vibrant urban setting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRdk8ZShxaI

Quote
With a fitting beep, doors opened and out stepped local elected officials and executives as confetti rained down over them outside the driverless bus.

The battery-powered driverless shuttle — operated by the mobility company Beep — had safely delivered them to the official opening of the free service, which will shuttle daily between the Laureate Park Village Center and Lake Nona Town Center. The route of about a mile will take about 12 minutes, toting 10 people at 15 mph.

“Tomorrow is here,” said Rasesh Thakkar, senior managing director of Tavistock Development, which created Lake Nona.

Jérôme Rigaud, chief operating officer of the French company Navya that built the bus, hopes drivers and passengers grow to find the technology boring and a regular part of life. He pitched its safety to skeptics by asking how quickly drivers pick up their phones when they sit down in a vehicle.

Full article: https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orange-county/os-ne-autonomous-shuttle-launch-20190918-xyianpytbnbzvnc2x4oluur2pm-story.html
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Non-RedNeck Westsider

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #63 on: November 07, 2019, 02:00:02 PM »
^Ok folks, let's take about 20% off there.

Nan?
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Kerry

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #64 on: November 07, 2019, 02:38:09 PM »
Psssh, nobody would use it!

Oh wait, somebody WOULD use it? Hmm, better pivot...

Psssh! It'll never get built!

Kerry is never incorrect. His pessimism knows no bounds, nor does it ever fail to be the source of absolute truth in all things Jacksonville!

Okay, I guess a few people riding it once in awhile to get a beer after work doesn't technically qualify as nobody, but neither does the "I would take it all the time" really mean all the time, as in, I'll never ever go get a beer any other way.

Seriously, the basis of fixed guideway in Jax is so people can get a beer after work?
Third Place

Ken_FSU

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #65 on: November 07, 2019, 03:09:54 PM »
Orlando has already beat you with the autonomous shuttle service thing.  You can't take this thing serious for a realistic mover of high volume capacity in a vibrant urban setting.

Quote
The route of about a mile will take about 12 minutes, toting 10 people at 15 mph.

Hate to be the math guy here, but a 12 minute mile = 5 mph.

Roughly half speed of a goose running down the street.

The future is here.

Peter Griffin

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #66 on: November 07, 2019, 03:15:25 PM »
Yeah, these AV's are dumb. Expanding the skyway doesn't seem to be feasible (but may be the best option considering just how many TOD's are popping up in LaVilla, and the potential for making the Brooklyn area a retrofitted TOD)

Buses and shuttles can be (and are) implemented now, I could see that as a WAY better stopgap/last-mile solution than these silly little clown cars. Heck, just start a fund and subsidize Uber or Lyft rides within the area. Inventing technology to solve a problem rather than using existing tech is the reason we still prop up the skyway, which is criminally underutilized.

Steve

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #67 on: November 07, 2019, 03:32:14 PM »
Psssh, nobody would use it!

Oh wait, somebody WOULD use it? Hmm, better pivot...

Psssh! It'll never get built!

Kerry is never incorrect. His pessimism knows no bounds, nor does it ever fail to be the source of absolute truth in all things Jacksonville!

Okay, I guess a few people riding it once in awhile to get a beer after work doesn't technically qualify as nobody, but neither does the "I would take it all the time" really mean all the time, as in, I'll never ever go get a beer any other way.

Seriously, the basis of fixed guideway in Jax is so people can get a beer after work?

I must be under the weather, but I'm actually leaning in the Kerry court here.

Here's my thought: On a large stadium event (Jags, FL/GA, etc.), I can see this thing being jammed full - no argument there. Further, as stuff develops downtown I can see this being more used for a Shrimp game or Concert at the arena. Dad Rock Live - as some affectionately refer to Daily's Place as - doesn't have enough quantity of events to move a needle (at least at present). So, if the entire draw on that side of Hogan's Creek is the Sports Complex, Intuition, and everything at Lot J built out as currently spec'ed, I'm not sure I see a massive use for this thing.

thelakelander

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #68 on: November 07, 2019, 03:41:09 PM »
Orlando has already beat you with the autonomous shuttle service thing.  You can't take this thing serious for a realistic mover of high volume capacity in a vibrant urban setting.

Quote
The route of about a mile will take about 12 minutes, toting 10 people at 15 mph.

Hate to be the math guy here, but a 12 minute mile = 5 mph.

Roughly half speed of a goose running down the street.

The future is here.

One of my consultants lives in Lake Nona. She's been complaining about them slowing down traffic and having to drive around them. That's something they'll have to fine tune.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

I-10east

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #69 on: November 07, 2019, 04:45:10 PM »
Hate to be the math guy here, but a 12 minute mile = 5 mph.

Roughly half speed of a goose running down the street.

The future is here.

 ;D ;D ;D

Ken_FSU

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #70 on: November 07, 2019, 06:45:29 PM »
Orlando has already beat you with the autonomous shuttle service thing.  You can't take this thing serious for a realistic mover of high volume capacity in a vibrant urban setting.

Quote
The route of about a mile will take about 12 minutes, toting 10 people at 15 mph.

Hate to be the math guy here, but a 12 minute mile = 5 mph.

Roughly half speed of a goose running down the street.

The future is here.

One of my consultants lives in Lake Nona. She's been complaining about them slowing down traffic and having to drive around them. That's something they'll have to fine tune.

Can you imagine what these things will do to the flow of vehicular traffic driving down Bay Street and Riverside Boulevard, where the JTA has proposed routes?

It just seems like such a tragically dumb idea on all counts.

Robo shuttles make so much more sense in the context of first-mile/last-mile solutions roving dense neighborhoods at low speeds and feeding people into fixed transit, rather than serving as the main transit system itself.

Not to mention the fact that, within 10 years, the private sector will have their own autonomous vehicles and shuttles on the roads. As a city, we can't possibly compete with the economy of scale that the Ubers and Lyfts will have.

We need to stick with what we actually have a competitive advantage in, which is fixed transit with dedicated ROW.

Not sure why we insist on overcomplicating everything.

thelakelander

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #71 on: November 07, 2019, 07:44:17 PM »
^Sticking with dedicated ROW should be a no brainer. being reliable and saving time are two of the best ways for transit to be competitive for choice riders. Without dedicated ROW within a congested urban area, you fail at those things no matter what the technology in the rolling stock may be.

At some point, there will need to be a discussion about what the true vision for downtown's future will be. If we really want it to be a dense area, right sizing streets and congestion will likely become a part of the landscape. Transit with the capacity to move a much larger amount of people will most likely have to be a part of that picture. Right now, the stuff being borrowed from various manufacturers has not advanced to a point of being able to even match the current Skyway from a capacity perspective.

With that said, I do like JTA's current plan of running those things down Bay Street Lake Nona/Las Vegas-style before screwing up the existing fixed Skyway system. If they fail to live up to expectations, not much money has been wasted if we need to move on to something else.



"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Charles Hunter

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #72 on: November 07, 2019, 07:53:42 PM »
^Sticking with dedicated ROW should be a no brainer. being reliable and saving time are two of the best ways for transit to be competitive for choice riders. Without dedicated ROW within a congested urban area, you fail at those things no matter what the technology in the rolling stock may be.

At some point, there will need to be a discussion about what the true vision for downtown's future will be. If we really want it to be a dense area, right sizing streets and congestion will likely become a part of the landscape. Transit with the capacity to move a much larger amount of people will most likely have to be a part of that picture. Right now, the stuff being borrowed from various manufacturers has not advanced to a point of being able to even match the current Skyway from a capacity perspective.

With that said, I do like JTA's current plan of running those things down Bay Street Lake Nona/Las Vegas-style before screwing up the existing fixed Skyway system. If they fail to live up to expectations, not much money has been wasted if we need to move on to something else.


I wish I could share your confidence.  I thought JTA was going to take the Skyway out of service for the year (or more) long process to convert the Skyway track for AV's, while the Bay Street 'test' was underway.  Are they going to wait to begin the conversion until they have some real-world ground-level experience?

thelakelander

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Re: Khan, Jaguars expect Lot J development to begin early 2020
« Reply #73 on: November 08, 2019, 09:29:38 AM »
There was a recent article (like a week or two ago) that made it sound like JTA would first run AVs down Bay Street between the JRTC and TIAA Bank Field first, before doing anything with the Skyway. The story mentioned they would have AVs running on Bay within three years.  Maybe I read it the wrong way.  I can't find it now.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali