Author Topic: Before & After: South Beach  (Read 1310 times)

thelakelander

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Before & After: South Beach
« on: October 23, 2019, 08:18:19 AM »
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Before and after images in and around South Beach that illustrate the incremental transformation of Florida's most popular urban destination.

Full Article: https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/before-after-south-beach/
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Adam White

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Re: Before & After: South Beach
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2019, 08:29:31 AM »
Very cool. Thanks.

There are probably all sorts of reasons why this is a bad idea, but I think a pedestrianized street in Downtown Jax would be great - assuming there are shops, cafes, etc. 
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thelakelander

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Re: Before & After: South Beach
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2019, 09:36:07 AM »
DT already kind of does have one in Hogan Street, under the Skyway. Of course, it could be better than it already is.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Papa33

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Re: Before & After: South Beach
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2019, 10:11:34 AM »
I would recommend a documentary titled The Last Resort for anyone interested in the recent history (from the late 60s I believe) of South Beach.  I think you'll find it on Netflix.

Wacca Pilatka

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Re: Before & After: South Beach
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2019, 10:14:51 AM »
DT already kind of does have one in Hogan Street, under the Skyway. Of course, it could be better than it already is.

If I squint a little I could see Hogan becoming like the Main Street Mall in Charlottesville, VA, heavily active with outdoor seating for its many restaurants (including in the median) and attractive, pedestrian-friendly park features, fountains, etc.
The tourist would realize at once that he had struck the Land of Flowers - the City Beautiful!

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thelakelander

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Re: Before & After: South Beach
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2019, 10:26:01 AM »
I would recommend a documentary titled The Last Resort for anyone interested in the recent history (from the late 60s I believe) of South Beach.  I think you'll find it on Netflix.

Thanks! I'll check it out!
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Adam White

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Re: Before & After: South Beach
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2019, 10:39:59 AM »
DT already kind of does have one in Hogan Street, under the Skyway. Of course, it could be better than it already is.

Is Hogan Street pedestrianized? I used to work at the Ed Ball building and there were always cars parked along the street. Maybe it is further down? I seem to remember the Skyway passing by there, though.
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Wacca Pilatka

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Re: Before & After: South Beach
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2019, 11:37:05 AM »
DT already kind of does have one in Hogan Street, under the Skyway. Of course, it could be better than it already is.

Is Hogan Street pedestrianized? I used to work at the Ed Ball building and there were always cars parked along the street. Maybe it is further down? I seem to remember the Skyway passing by there, though.

Technically, no.  Practically, yes.  Because of the large median for the Skyway, it's functionally pedestrianized, which is why Lake said "kind of" - but cars can still drive on Hogan.
The tourist would realize at once that he had struck the Land of Flowers - the City Beautiful!

Henry J. Klutho

Adam White

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Re: Before & After: South Beach
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2019, 03:06:03 PM »
DT already kind of does have one in Hogan Street, under the Skyway. Of course, it could be better than it already is.

Is Hogan Street pedestrianized? I used to work at the Ed Ball building and there were always cars parked along the street. Maybe it is further down? I seem to remember the Skyway passing by there, though.

Technically, no.  Practically, yes.  Because of the large median for the Skyway, it's functionally pedestrianized, which is why Lake said "kind of" - but cars can still drive on Hogan.

Ah, okay. So it hasn't changed since I worked there. I'd argue it's a wide sidewalk and is missing the best feature of a pedestrianized street - the fact that you can access the entire area - including the shops and stuff on both sides - without having to deal with traffic. But it's not like that area of downtown was particularly congested back in the day.
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fieldafm

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Re: Before & After: South Beach
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2019, 03:09:42 PM »
A little context that shows the physical characteristics, and opportunities, for Hogan Street today

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/a-bike-lane-for-downtowns-hogan-street/

DVI, to their credit, recently installed some outdoor seating outside of The Happy Grilled Cheese and Vagabond Coffee along Hogan between Adams and Monroe Streets.  Lori Boyer has identified Hogan as ground zero for a new retail corridor initiative. 

Adam White

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Re: Before & After: South Beach
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2019, 03:15:26 PM »
A little context that shows the physical characteristics, and opportunities, for Hogan Street today

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/a-bike-lane-for-downtowns-hogan-street/

DVI, to their credit, recently installed some outdoor seating outside of The Happy Grilled Cheese and Vagabond Coffee along Hogan between Adams and Monroe Streets.  Lori Boyer has identified Hogan as ground zero for a new retail corridor initiative.

That's good news - and I wasn't criticizing Hogan street. I just thought maybe I remembered it wrong.

There's probably all sorts of reasons why this is a bad idea, but I kind of like the idea of Laura street being pedestrianized all the way up to the Landing. Or to the empty waterfront lot, as it were.
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thelakelander

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Re: Before & After: South Beach
« Reply #11 on: October 23, 2019, 04:39:07 PM »
^The main reason would be that places with little foot traffic tend to quickly fail when automobile visibility and access is taken away as well. With that in mind, most in the US ended of failing and being reopened to auto and bike traffic.
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Steve

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Re: Before & After: South Beach
« Reply #12 on: October 23, 2019, 05:18:01 PM »
A little context that shows the physical characteristics, and opportunities, for Hogan Street today

https://www.thejaxsonmag.com/article/a-bike-lane-for-downtowns-hogan-street/

DVI, to their credit, recently installed some outdoor seating outside of The Happy Grilled Cheese and Vagabond Coffee along Hogan between Adams and Monroe Streets.  Lori Boyer has identified Hogan as ground zero for a new retail corridor initiative. 

Hogan is probably the best place to showcase what the land under the Skyway could be - you have awesome building stock and while the sidewalk on one side is super narrow, the other side is crazy wide. Personally, I'd pop for some Reverse Angled Parking in place of the Parallel spots but otherwise you have the bones for something really cool.

Adam White

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Re: Before & After: South Beach
« Reply #13 on: October 24, 2019, 04:44:23 AM »
^The main reason would be that places with little foot traffic tend to quickly fail when automobile visibility and access is taken away as well. With that in mind, most in the US ended of failing and being reopened to auto and bike traffic.

I guess the best approach would be to get the density and vibrancy first and then pedestrianize it after it is successful and established? I can appreciate how closing a street like Laura street would do nothing much at this point.

I've seen a few very successful pedestrianized streets and they were all very thriving shopping areas with few (if any) vacancies. Strøget in Copenhagen comes to mind - apparently it was open to traffic until the 60s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Str%C3%B8get
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Steve

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Re: Before & After: South Beach
« Reply #14 on: October 24, 2019, 08:16:39 AM »
I feel like (at least in the US), the Pedestrian Malls are usually in more tourist/novelty areas. Thinking about some of the more prominent urban shopping areas (5th Avenue and Herald Square in NYC, Michigan Avenue in Chicago, etc.) all are open to traffic (the mayor closed the Broadway/6th Avenue intersection at Herald Square to cars a couple years back but the streets themselves are still open to traffic).

On the other hand, streets like St George Street are more destinations in themselves (let's take the family and stroll down St. George Street) versus going to a specific store to shop.