Catholic Diocese seeks ‘new options’ for aging Downtown Providence Center site

[thelakelander]

It appears more religious property could be headed towards a new use in DT:

The former Immaculate Conception School building, which was built sometime after the Great Fire of 1901, was turned into an ecumenical social services hub in 1986. But over the years, tenants either moved to new locations or closed, leaving the diocese with vacancies, decreasing rental income and increasing maintenance costs.

One organization with particular interest is the Cathedral District-Jax, a nonprofit established by St. John’s Cathedral to be a catalyst for development in the district, which includes Providence Center. President/CEO Ginny Myrick said she met with Williams and the Rev. Blair Gaynes of the Basilica of Immaculate Conception Catholic Church to discuss the building.

“I hope to get a walk-through soon. It was formerly a school and would make a great location for a charter school,” Myrick said. “I offered to assist anyway possible.”

Full article: https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190914/catholic-diocese-seeks-new-options-for-aging-providence-center-site-in-downtown-jacksonville

[heights unknown]

Does anyone have any stanback, BC, goody's, or bayers aspirin? I have a headache!

[jaxlongtimer]

Looks like Downtown is being flooded with "for sale" signs.  It would seem, under the best of circumstances, that it would take years or even decades to absorb all these "opportunities" based on Downtown's lackluster history. 

Ironically, the churches are telling us they are selling as Downtown is on the wane, not the other way.  And, while Downtown has had a few "successes," mostly driven by tax credits or other incentives, I don't see the spark for soaking up all this real estate anytime soon.  Curry is going to be hard pressed to show he improved Downtown substantially at this rate and Lot J isn't going to cut it. 

By the way, I don't count the Brooklyn or Southbank submarkets as our traditional "Downtown" so I am excluding those developments, not that City leaders can take much credit for what's happening in those areas.

[thelakelander]

Ironically, the churches are telling us they are selling as Downtown is on the wane, not the other way.

I view it more as a transition of traditional American religion. The era of acquiring massive amounts of property for religious needs has passed. For survival and focus on the core purpose of religion, selling off expensive excess properties makes all the sense in the world.

Right across the river in San Marco, two prominent churches have also sold excess property and facilities they don't need anymore. Both of those projects have market rate apartments either already under construction or proposed, as their replacements. However, no one would say that San Marco is in decline. Yet, Sunday morning church attendance is.

And, while Downtown has had a few "successes," mostly driven by tax credits or other incentives, I don't see the spark for soaking up all this real estate anytime soon.  Curry is going to be hard pressed to show he improved Downtown substantially at this rate and Lot J isn't going to cut it.

Curry hitched his wagon to Lot J and the Jags years ago. He'll claim Lot J as his downtown game changer and he'll also claim anything positive that takes place in the area during the course of his terms. All politicians do that, regardless of if they have anything to do with them or not.

[jaxlongtimer]

Ironically, the churches are telling us they are selling as Downtown is on the wane, not the other way.

I view it more as a transition of traditional American religion. The era of acquiring massive amounts of property for religious needs has passed. For survival and focus on the core purpose of religion, selling off expensive excess properties makes all the sense in the world.

Right across the river in San Marco, two prominent churches have also sold excess property and facilities they don't need anymore. Both of those projects have market rate apartments either already under construction or proposed, as their replacements. However, no one would say that San Marco is in decline. Yet, Sunday morning church attendance is.

Lake, I agree, overall, many religious enterprises are saddled with too much real estate.  However, even so, it seems the Downtown area ones are in worse shape than the suburban ones.  Along with the "newer," more successful nondenominational churches all arising in the suburbs, the fact that First Baptist and others are emphasizing suburban locations as they move into the future supports this.

FYI, just saw this in today's Daily Record: https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/while-traditional-churches-struggle-contemporary-options-booming

[thelakelander]

Most are simply going to smaller, newer locations where the majority of their membership base lives. Nevertheless, I'm not aware of any one building 10-block churches these days, not even the more successful nondenominational churches. With that said, the larger ones will still have their financial chickens come home to roost as their facilities age and people move on to the next new thing. Like malls, 1970s era office towers and traditional retail, traditional urban churches are having to evolve with an urban setting and culture that is nothing like it was in previous generations. So I'd question if change and evolution equates to decline.