Author Topic: The Ford on Bay  (Read 117862 times)

fieldafm

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #360 on: January 12, 2022, 10:14:03 AM »
My guess is that there's a lot more being evaluated behind the term "Project Development & Design" than the graphics portion of each of the proposals. Outside of generating public support, graphics don't really mean much when factoring in those other criteria.

Correct.  The mix of uses, the interaction with the public realm (Bay Street and waterfront), etc all encompass this scoring section.

The winning bidder will still work with DIA staff on architectural nuances and adherence to Code... which will then go through the DDRB process... and then go through a 10-set review via COJ Development Services, etc. 

   

Ken_FSU

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #361 on: January 12, 2022, 10:35:52 AM »
Thanks for posting the scoring Lake.

I wish there was a recording of the presentations, would love to see.

Looking through the PDF, I quite like the Carter proposal.

What I particularly like to see is that there was a wider group scoring than something like that Landing, and all four picked Carter.

Carter won by a wide margin, and even if you totally take the bonus points off the table (which would be the easiest to arbitrarily pad), Carter still would have won by a comfortable margin.

I've seen past scoring rubrics that made me scratch my head and wonder if maybe a fix was in, but the scores look fair, and even if some of the individual scores are a bit weird (like Citrano's score for Experience & Qualifications for Southeast), they're nothing that would have swung the vote in a different direction.

On the surface, looks fair and reasonable.

I like the Atkins renders, but I also like seeing things get done in a timely fashion without the city having to subsidize 400-space subterranean garages and completely rebuild the riverwalk, so no complaints. After wasting years on Spandrel, I favor the realistic.

Steve

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #362 on: January 12, 2022, 11:21:33 AM »
Carter wasn't my favorite when I first looked, but after looking again in more detail I see why they picked Carter and I think they may have gotten this one right.

Putting aside the fact that I think Convention is the best use for this block and the block behind the Hyatt, I'm good with this proposal. The architectural is definitely unique - I like the modern take on Hardwick's stuff, I like the significant retail uses with future retail built in (a recognition of both the current market and where we want to go, and I like that this has some decent height.

jaxjags

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #363 on: January 13, 2022, 02:51:20 PM »
I think the Hardwick is a well thought out development that includes elements fitting to the waterfront. First and foremost, I like the Harwick elements - Open ground floor with the column supports and open-air screening elements. No other design took a special approach based on Jacksonville. Second the interaction with the river is really nice with open walkways, the marina/wharf integration to the site, and the use of shade cover. As others have said, the open space for further retail is also good. Also, the 75-foot platform with the 300-foot tower being setback should not have any height issues.

Compared to the others, I see this space attracting Jaxons to visit and enjoy year-round. Plus, I believe the development costs fit right into what Carter is well capable of doing.

Tacachale

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #364 on: January 16, 2022, 11:29:16 PM »
This is definitely a case that shows the importance of not just judging based on cool renderings, but on how things work and if the developer can pull it off. The scoring system seemed pretty good, better than some we’ve seen in the past. Kudos.
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vicupstate

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #366 on: January 20, 2022, 08:43:04 AM »
During the Jan. 18 committee debate, board member Oliver Barakat said The Hardwick’s proposed architectural quality and homage to a prominent local voice in building design “took it to another level.”

I've never been a big fan of Hardwick's work. That said DuPont did the library a major upgrade. When is Jacksonville going to pay homage to a much more significant local architect, Henry Klutho?  Getting the Laura Trio done, would be a nice start. 
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thelakelander

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #367 on: January 20, 2022, 09:34:51 AM »
Hardwick's work and Mid Century Architecture has grown on me over the years. What I like most about this particular design is the open ground level and the public space that integrates with the riverfront. In essence, it pulls the Bay Street strip and the City Hall Annex block into the overall space. Assuming they can pull the project off, now we just need the city to work with the Hyatt and get an exhibition hall with ground floor retail, dining and cultural space on the backside of that hotel.









« Last Edit: January 20, 2022, 09:37:19 AM by thelakelander »
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Ken_FSU

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #368 on: January 20, 2022, 12:46:36 PM »
I've never been a big fan of Hardwick's work. That said DuPont did the library a major upgrade. When is Jacksonville going to pay homage to a much more significant local architect, Henry Klutho?  Getting the Laura Trio done, would be a nice start.

I simultaneously appreciate Hardwick's work/Mid Century architecture while hating it aesthetically.

With the qualifier that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and lord knows I've never been known for having a keen eye for art, Mid Century buildings like Universal Marion, the Fuller Warren Building, the Haydon Burns Library, and Old Independent Life just haven't aged as well as buildings like the St. James Building, the Barnett, Hotel Roosevelt, Marble Bank, etc.

Love absolutely everything about the Carter proposal and site plan, but I hope the design stands the test of time better than some of the others.

Hard to tell from the renders, but feels like its a more modern take on the style.

Excited to see what the finished product will look like.


jaxlongtimer

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #369 on: January 20, 2022, 10:09:24 PM »
^ So, how does anyone think today's glass skinned towers and painted boxy apartment buildings will age?  Seems they lack so much character that one can't really find much, if anything, all that singular about them. 

I do think the Wells Fargo's slanted base makes that building a bit more interesting (always makes be think of a Saturn V rocket with big fins at the base about to launch  ;D ) but that's the best I can come up with.  Otherwise, I think our most distinctive "modern" skyscrapers are the Everbank/Bellsouth Tower and the Ameris/Gulf Life tower.

Zac T

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #370 on: January 21, 2022, 12:22:38 PM »
^ So, how does anyone think today's glass skinned towers and painted boxy apartment buildings will age?  Seems they lack so much character that one can't really find much, if anything, all that singular about them. 

I do think the Wells Fargo's slanted base makes that building a bit more interesting (always makes be think of a Saturn V rocket with big fins at the base about to launch  ;D ) but that's the best I can come up with.  Otherwise, I think our most distinctive "modern" skyscrapers are the Everbank/Bellsouth Tower and the Ameris/Gulf Life tower.

I'm of the opinion that our modern buildings are going to age fine. The Northbank skyline still looks great daytime and nighttime despite not having a new tower since 2002-03. Same with the Southbank.

Speaking for the younger generation, I'd say the most distinctive building is the BofA tower because it's the one building that you can see from anywhere. I'm 20 so growing up that was always the building that me and my friends would recognize and point out since it was the the tallest and had the pointed roof that lit up at night. It's also my little nephew's favorite building. Most people 30+ I've talked to always like the Wells Fargo Tower so I think it's generational

Ken_FSU

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #371 on: January 21, 2022, 12:46:02 PM »
I'm of the opinion that our modern buildings are going to age fine. The Northbank skyline still looks great daytime and nighttime despite not having a new tower since 2002-03. Same with the Southbank.

Agreed.

You know what Mid Century building has aged really well?

The Times-Union building in Brooklyn.

I believe the demolition was just permitted.

Going to miss seeing her when I cross the river.

jaxlongtimer

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #372 on: January 21, 2022, 12:58:10 PM »
^ So, how does anyone think today's glass skinned towers and painted boxy apartment buildings will age?  Seems they lack so much character that one can't really find much, if anything, all that singular about them. 

I do think the Wells Fargo's slanted base makes that building a bit more interesting (always makes be think of a Saturn V rocket with big fins at the base about to launch  ;D ) but that's the best I can come up with.  Otherwise, I think our most distinctive "modern" skyscrapers are the Everbank/Bellsouth Tower and the Ameris/Gulf Life tower.

I'm of the opinion that our modern buildings are going to age fine. The Northbank skyline still looks great daytime and nighttime despite not having a new tower since 2002-03. Same with the Southbank.

Speaking for the younger generation, I'd say the most distinctive building is the BofA tower because it's the one building that you can see from anywhere. I'm 20 so growing up that was always the building that me and my friends would recognize and point out since it was the the tallest and had the pointed roof that lit up at night. It's also my little nephew's favorite building. Most people 30+ I've talked to always like the Wells Fargo Tower so I think it's generational

Respect all opinions.  I was focusing more on individual buildings than the entire skyline.  FYI, the B of A tower is a modified version of the same building in Manhattan so it is not all that unique in the larger world.  The Gulf Life building is supported by its exoskeleton unlike most buildings so that makes it a bit more unusual aside from its aesthetics.

Ken_FSU

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #373 on: March 21, 2022, 10:07:34 AM »
Quote
The Hardwick at Ford on Bay contract gets 60-day extension

The timeline for one of the more high-profile projects downtown has been extended by two months.

At a committee meeting Wednesday, the Downtown Investment Authority received a 60-day extension to come to terms on a contract with developer Carter for The Hardwick at Ford on Bay. The extension means the contract should be solidified in early May.

DIA CEO Lori Boyer said the extension is needed because of how busy the DIA has been in recent weeks.

“We were consumed by the recent board meeting– that was substantial–and the Metropolitan Parking Solutions settlement and didn’t have time to finalize the term sheet with Carter,” Boyer told the Retail Enhancement and Property Disposition committee.

Carter in January was awarded the former courthouse site on Bay Street, on which it intends to build a $140 million project that would bring 332 residential units and 25,000 square feet of retail space.

Full article:
https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2022/03/10/dia-carter-extension.html

Come on DIA, let's have some urgency.

Charles Hunter

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Re: The Ford on Bay
« Reply #374 on: March 21, 2022, 10:16:05 AM »
^ This is from 11 days ago.  Does anyone know if the DIA has found the time to work on the Hardwick deal?