Author Topic: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes  (Read 5570 times)

acme54321

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #75 on: August 22, 2019, 01:26:45 PM »
While I'm completely on board with changes to more closely match the Johnson Commons bid, is this legal? Vestcor won the bid based on the original design and now they can tweak the project to mirror elements of the runner up? While it's a definite win for downtown, how does this not discourage people from bidding? It appears to send the message that if you aren't the preferred company; you'll never be chosen but your design elements can still be used by the winning team. Am I missing something about bidding for contracts?

Agree.  How are you going to let new players into the market if the dominant criteria is track record completing projects in the specific area that massively favors one bidder?  Makes no sense.  Competition is a good problem in Lavilla.  I deal with government contracts and we would get protests ALL DAY if we pulled something like that.

Steve

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #76 on: August 22, 2019, 01:59:26 PM »
It's completely legal to make minor adjustments. Architectural elements weren't being judged, and unless they change the entire development to be 100% retail, if the development is still largely residential that would be in line.

The law says the COJ/DIA doesn't formally have to even respond to unsolicited bids. The developed a criteria which I didn't agree with, but they had one. The thing that set Vestcor apart was their experience. That doesn't change based on taking a few residential units out and adding retail.

Again, I still think Johnson was the better bid, but I see Vestcor taking aspects of Johnson's bid and applying it as a positive. It's not like Johnson split the atom with the concept of a mixed use building or non-crappy aesthetics.

Captain Zissou

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #77 on: August 22, 2019, 02:06:57 PM »
While I'm completely on board with changes to more closely match the Johnson Commons bid, is this legal? Vestcor won the bid based on the original design and now they can tweak the project to mirror elements of the runner up? While it's a definite win for downtown, how does this not discourage people from bidding? It appears to send the message that if you aren't the preferred company; you'll never be chosen but your design elements can still be used by the winning team. Am I missing something about bidding for contracts?
This definitely struck me as odd and seems like favoritism.  I hope the city keeps JWB and Corner Lot on a short list for future projects.  They had the best design and most likely would have had no issues financing and executing this development.  Instead of holding the hand of the experienced developer and guiding their design, lets help the newcomers to get projects done so that they can develop a relationship with the city.

Charles Hunter

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #78 on: August 22, 2019, 02:33:54 PM »
It's completely legal to make minor adjustments. Architectural elements weren't being judged, and unless they change the entire development to be 100% retail, if the development is still largely residential that would be in line.

The law says the COJ/DIA doesn't formally have to even respond to unsolicited bids. The developed a criteria which I didn't agree with, but they had one. The thing that set Vestcor apart was their experience. That doesn't change based on taking a few residential units out and adding retail.

Again, I still think Johnson was the better bid, but I see Vestcor taking aspects of Johnson's bid and applying it as a positive. It's not like Johnson split the atom with the concept of a mixed use building or non-crappy aesthetics.

Might be legal, but sure seems shady.
What percentage of the selection score was "experience"?  When I was on selection teams at government agencies, I always pushed to have "experience" as a low proportion of the total score.

To your point about "unsolicited bids" - I thought the initial Vestcor proposal was unsolicited, and in response, the DIA put out an invitation for bids, resulting in the Vestcor, JWB, and Corner Lot proposals.

Steve

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #79 on: August 22, 2019, 04:09:58 PM »
Experience category was significant enough to tip the scales to Vestcor. It was 20% of the overall. Silly, but in their defense they disclosed the scoring PRIOR to the submissions from everyone. Johnson has the better proposal based on the rankings and total ROI to the COJ.

Your recollection is correct on how that process went down.

Again, I think that if we lock down these types of RFPs so they can’t make a (potentially positive) change to their development, then that’s sort of going against the roles of these companies.

Consider this: imagine if all of these respondents had large parking garages, but the winner didn’t have retail on the ground floor. They then went back and added it before the broke ground. Is that wrong?

thelakelander

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #80 on: August 22, 2019, 04:31:10 PM »
What percentage of the selection score was "experience"?  When I was on selection teams at government agencies, I always pushed to have "experience" as a low proportion of the total score.

1. Financial Resources (20 points)
2. Past Development Experience (20 points)
3. Consistency with Northbank Plan (30 points)
4. Relationship to Park (15 points)
5. Return on Investment (15 points)
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Captain Zissou

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #81 on: August 23, 2019, 09:39:11 AM »
Consider this: imagine if all of these respondents had large parking garages, but the winner didn’t have retail on the ground floor. They then went back and added it before the broke ground. Is that wrong?

I don't think that's quite the same.  I'd say it's more like what if.... I don't know somebody we'll call Shad... entered an RFP against somebody we'll call..... how about Ennis.  Shad's proposal is garbage, but he has a lot of money and close ties with the mayor.  Ennis is a genius and his development is exactly what downtown needs, but this would be his biggest project to date and he's actually hated by the mayor.  So Shad wins the RFP because of who he is, even with his garbage proposal, but then the city helps guide him to a better design after the fact.  The city ignores the design merits to steer the proposal toward someone they're buddies with and then uses cues from the losing competition to improve the design.

MusicMan

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #82 on: August 24, 2019, 10:38:48 AM »
"The city ignores the design merits to steer the proposal toward someone they're buddies with and then uses cues from the losing competition to improve the design."

A lot of that happening in Jax............. In related news, Peter Rummell has accidentally locked himself inside a bathroom at his San Marco riverfront mansion.

Steve

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #83 on: August 24, 2019, 01:13:31 PM »
Consider this: imagine if all of these respondents had large parking garages, but the winner didn’t have retail on the ground floor. They then went back and added it before the broke ground. Is that wrong?

I don't think that's quite the same.  I'd say it's more like what if.... I don't know somebody we'll call Shad... entered an RFP against somebody we'll call..... how about Ennis.  Shad's proposal is garbage, but he has a lot of money and close ties with the mayor.  Ennis is a genius and his development is exactly what downtown needs, but this would be his biggest project to date and he's actually hated by the mayor.  So Shad wins the RFP because of who he is, even with his garbage proposal, but then the city helps guide him to a better design after the fact.  The city ignores the design merits to steer the proposal toward someone they're buddies with and then uses cues from the losing competition to improve the design.

I get your point, and it’s a fair one. However, put that example side for a moment. There has to be some way to enhance a project between the RFP stage and when it goes before DDRB. Bottom line is that the project-unless the retail is in a stupid spot-is better with retail than without.

jaxjags

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #84 on: August 24, 2019, 05:02:26 PM »
5-2 to Vestcor. The merits of the proposals didn't mean as much to the DIA as their belief that Vestcor is a development partner they're more comfortable with. Hopefully, this situation gets them to open the downtown revitalization door up to new money. That can be done pretty quickly by putting everything they have in DT up for RFP.

I honestly just don't get it....

So why bother with the dog and pony if you've already made your decision?

I was part of two selections today - in both cases the selection committee went with the initial rankings from the written proposals - we spent probably $40,000 on the two presentations. Seriously folks, if you don't want serious competition, just go with the initial submittals and save everyone the time and money.


Everything being said brings me back to this. Hopefully DIA can come up with a better unsolicited bid approach.

Steve

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Re: Vestcor's Next Project - Market Rate LaVilla Townhomes
« Reply #85 on: August 26, 2019, 07:55:36 AM »
5-2 to Vestcor. The merits of the proposals didn't mean as much to the DIA as their belief that Vestcor is a development partner they're more comfortable with. Hopefully, this situation gets them to open the downtown revitalization door up to new money. That can be done pretty quickly by putting everything they have in DT up for RFP.

I honestly just don't get it....

So why bother with the dog and pony if you've already made your decision?

I was part of two selections today - in both cases the selection committee went with the initial rankings from the written proposals - we spent probably $40,000 on the two presentations. Seriously folks, if you don't want serious competition, just go with the initial submittals and save everyone the time and money.


Everything being said brings me back to this. Hopefully DIA can come up with a better unsolicited bid approach.

Supposed to be released in September. Agree with you-they should have had this already.