Author Topic: So, Jax May Be The Only City To Demolish Its Landing  (Read 3685 times)

minder

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Re: So, Jax May Be The Only City To Demolish Its Landing
« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2019, 07:15:05 PM »
Its not just the Landing though. Theres plenty of empty storefronts in that part of Downtown that could easily have been scooped up for entertainment purposes if the demand was there and if anything these places might benefit without the landing. The Sports Complex is nothing but asphalt, unless you work downtown, why would you spend anytime in the area beyond an actual event before leaving ASAP if you are visiting for pleasure? Why should the Florida Georgia for instance game remain in Jax when theres literally nothing to do Downtown for visitors? Also why do people seem so intent on pigeon holing Downtown into this small area around the Landing? Potential development at Lot J and to the west in Brooklyn is going to put the core at the centre of it all. There should be more to the area than a few hundred yards around the Landing and the Bank of America Tower.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2019, 07:17:32 PM by minder »

thelakelander

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Re: So, Jax May Be The Only City To Demolish Its Landing
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2019, 07:38:10 PM »
Update! Council's Finance Committee is on board. Full article: https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190320/majority-of-city-council-backs-tearing-down-jacksonville-landing

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Brian Hughes, who is chief of staff for Mayor Lenny Curry and also interim CEO of the Downtown Investment Authority, said the city already has fielded inquiries from developers about the Landing site.

He said the redevelopment of that site could move forward in the same way the DIA is seeking to attract private development on downtown land where demolition has been knocking down the old county courthouse and city hall annex along Bay Street.

The DIA board is scheduled to vote at its meeting Wednesday afternoon to hire a real estate specialist to create a development plan and the criteria the city will use while seeking a private developer at the courthouse and city hall annex land.

I really hate the "coulds" that Hughes uses. In other words, let's say you need about a year and a half (this is being nice and aggressive) to hire a real estate specialist, have them perform their study, then have the DIA create an RFP and issue an RFP for the site's future. Assuming no hick-ups, add another six months to a year to allow developers to respond to the RFP, select one to negotiate with and then go through the negotiation process. Assuming no hiccups, give that developer another year and a half to design, finance and successfully get through the permitting process. Add another 18 months to two years for construction. At best, you're looking at two major dead holes in the urban grid for a good five years. At worst, we go into a recession in two to three years and then you end up with another generational kids kampus type screw up.

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Hughes said the DIA staff will meet with Landing tenants interested in remaining downtown to show them retail spaces where they can relocate.

“If we have retailers who are successful and want to stay in downtown, we’re going to work with them to try to make that happen,” Hughes said.

Good but to be realistic, unless the DIA and COJ is going to open up the piggybank, the numbers likely won't work. The benefit of a space like the Landing is it can act as a small business incubator to a degree. Business owners don't have to come in and build out shell spaces, provide public restrooms, bring old empty spaces up to code or pay extra high rents. That's a completely different financial animal from moving into a shell space like the Library garage or the Carling.

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Some residents want the city to keep the mall and re-purpose it for another use. An online petition drive titled “Stop Tearing Down Urban Core Buildings” has gained almost 900 signatures.

But Hughes said the Landing is outdated as a retail facility and the Curry administration favors demolition. He said the replacement for the Landing could be a site with open space for the public plus some buildings for commercial activity.

"Could" suggests a level of either they don't know what they want or they do and aren't being totally revealing about it at this point. Favoring demolition without knowing what they want would be pretty uncreative and shortsighted since the process it will take to study the market, write an RFP, find a developer, etc. (assuming they even go that route) should happen before removing businesses and demolition.

Jax really needs a plan where everyone knows and participate in the implementation of a future vision for downtown. In many cities, they might not be where they want to be now but everyone knows where they're headed or at least trying to go.  Such stability actually helps move market rate private development along at a faster pace.

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jaxrox

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Re: So, Jax May Be The Only City To Demolish Its Landing
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2019, 07:52:10 PM »
I’m so disappointed today and filled with sadness. Not only for the demise of the landing but also that there was so little voter turnout yesterday that curry’s reign of explosives with no redevelopment plans (as a whole) and sheriff williams’ less than 50 percent homicide clearance will all be accepted and in continuance. We’ve got to do better, jax  :'(  *sigh*

Kerry

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Re: So, Jax May Be The Only City To Demolish Its Landing
« Reply #18 on: March 21, 2019, 07:39:18 AM »
Everytime you read the word "could" also include "could not".

Jax simply has no plan other than throw everything including the kitchen sink at Lot J.
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CityLife

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Re: So, Jax May Be The Only City To Demolish Its Landing
« Reply #19 on: March 21, 2019, 08:47:59 AM »
Everytime you read the word "could" also include "could not".

Jax simply has no plan other than throw everything including the kitchen sink at Lot J.

A communications/media guy with no experience in real estate development or planning is running the Downtown Development agency right now. So it’s not exactly surprising to see how poorly all of the moving parts in Downtown Jax have been managed. Ultimately, all roads lead to Khan, so things are going exactly as they want it.

Himsiro

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Re: So, Jax May Be The Only City To Demolish Its Landing
« Reply #20 on: March 22, 2019, 03:30:29 PM »
Harrah's or Hard Rock Casino is the only project needed to bring life to downtown 24/7. Drivers would have a reason to pull off I-95 for a visit and other developments would follow without asking for tax incentives.

marcuscnelson

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Re: So, Jax May Be The Only City To Demolish Its Landing
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2019, 08:55:59 PM »
Harrah's or Hard Rock Casino is the only project needed to bring life to downtown 24/7. Drivers would have a reason to pull off I-95 for a visit and other developments would follow without asking for tax incentives.

Ah yes, "my preferred pick of silver-bullet project will singlehandedly be the game-changer that makes Downtown great again."

Haven't heard that one before.

Kerry

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Re: So, Jax May Be The Only City To Demolish Its Landing
« Reply #22 on: March 23, 2019, 02:41:10 PM »
Harrah's or Hard Rock Casino is the only project needed to bring life to downtown 24/7. Drivers would have a reason to pull off I-95 for a visit and other developments would follow without asking for tax incentives.

Ah yes, "my preferred pick of silver-bullet project will singlehandedly be the game-changer that makes Downtown great again."

Haven't heard that one before.

It has worked everywhere that has tried it.  [/sarc]
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thelakelander

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Re: So, Jax May Be The Only City To Demolish Its Landing
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2019, 03:07:28 PM »
Harrah's or Hard Rock Casino is the only project needed to bring life to downtown 24/7. Drivers would have a reason to pull off I-95 for a visit and other developments would follow without asking for tax incentives.

Ah yes, "my preferred pick of silver-bullet project will singlehandedly be the game-changer that makes Downtown great again."

Haven't heard that one before.

LOL, that's essentially what the Berkman 2 proposal is minus the casino part. It will have the mini amusements, games and ferris wheel that many in the past claim what's needed to save downtown.
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Keith-N-Jax

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Re: So, Jax May Be The Only City To Demolish Its Landing
« Reply #24 on: March 27, 2019, 01:21:44 AM »
^^ That’s a bit pretentious

thelakelander

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Re: So, Jax May Be The Only City To Demolish Its Landing
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2019, 07:36:11 AM »
It's been a dream for a while now. Many of the ideas you see now are the same mentioned during the Peyton administration. They went away when Alvin Brown was in office. Now they're back, but a lot more expensive. Here's the Berkman 2 idea from 2011. At the time, the thought was it would cost around $20 million. However, the incentive package currently on the table is $36 million.

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They also included a land-use suggestion for an interactive destination entertainment park at the Shipyards property. Features in such a park could include “a London Eye type wheel, a coaster, adventure golf, a zip line course and others.”

Task force Chair Preston Haskell, in an interview published in today’s Daily Record, said the task force has spoken with a national firm that has developed parks in other cities and is “enthusiastic about doing this in Jacksonville.”

https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/parc-eyes-entertainment-park-shipyards
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 07:39:17 AM by thelakelander »
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marcuscnelson

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Re: So, Jax May Be The Only City To Demolish Its Landing
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2019, 10:33:11 AM »
https://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/article/city-council-approves-deal-that-gives-city-possession-of-the-jacksonville-landing

Witness… the excuses!

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Bill Gulliford said demolition would benefit potential developers who would have a clean slate to create something new.

“I’m just tickled to death to see movement on the Landing,” Gulliford said. “I don’t have any heartburn about demolishing the structures.”

Lori Boyer said it was time to “move forward with Jacksonville’s future.”

She called JLI partner Toney Sleiman, president of shopping center developer Sleiman Enterprises, one of Jacksonville’s most successful retail operators and asked if he couldn’t make the Landing work, how could the city do so.

Council President Aaron Bowman echoed other claims that the city would end up wasting money on maintenance and repairs if the structures remain.

Bowman said in his role as a vice president at JAXUSA Partnership, the economic development arm of JAX Chamber, he often tells people not to visit the Landing.

Oh, and a bone tied to string at the end here:

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In the next six months, Hughes said to expect the DIA and the administration to aggressively seek proposals for redevelopment.

He said that while the administration favors demolition, there will be time to discuss all possibilities.

“We’re not going to say never,” said Hughes about using the buildings for another purpose.

“If somebody comes to us with an amazing plan that makes sense given the expertise at DIA and throughout the city, we’ll listen,” he said.

thelakelander

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Re: So, Jax May Be The Only City To Demolish Its Landing
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2019, 11:05:29 AM »
If they're really aggressive about seeking proposals for redevelopment and discussing all possibilities that come with that, then they need to issue a RFP outlining that desire before moving forward with wholesale demo. Things like the operator assuming responsibilities for programming, maintenance, liabilities, etc. can be included as a requirement. This pretty much covers all of their concerns highlighted above.
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Wacca Pilatka

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Re: So, Jax May Be The Only City To Demolish Its Landing
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2019, 11:44:58 AM »
Et tu, Lori Boyer?
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Todd_Parker

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Re: So, Jax May Be The Only City To Demolish Its Landing
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2019, 11:55:44 AM »
"given the expertise at DIA and throughout the city"

Are we sure about this?