Author Topic: Jaguars New Stadium?  (Read 9785 times)

pierre

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Re: Jaguars New Stadium?
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2019, 08:20:16 AM »
Re-reading the article is mind bending.... Put a winner on the field guys!  Stop worrying about the stadium and focus on the team! You keep winning 5 games per year and no one will be IN the stadium!

Lamping is not part of football operations. He has zero control over what happens on the field. He is just doing his job.

KenFSU

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Re: Jaguars New Stadium?
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2019, 09:59:09 AM »
Hindsight's 20/20, but I said it last year, and I'll say it again this year.

Removing those tarps permanently was a big mistake.

The tarps weren't put up because the Jags were terrible and no one wanted to go to the games, but rather because the stadium was and is too large for a market our size.

Best things the Jags could do is continue to make improvements to the existing stadium to better protect fans from the elements and reduce capacity.

56,000 to 59,000 feels like a great sweet spot (Soldier Field in Chicago is only 61,500), for so many reasons:

1) You create a genuine demand for tickets that has never existed in Jacksonville aside from a few isolated games
2) You price out traveling fans and create more of a home field advantage (especially with a cover to amplify sound)
3) You always sell out, potentially have a waiting list for season tickets, and eliminate all talk of substandard attendance

Kneejerk reaction is that the Jags would never go for it because they'd be leaving money on the table, but the reality is, they could charge a lot more per ticket with a reduced capacity, and as the market grows and the Jags hopefully start winning consistently, you could start to think about things like limited PSLs to drive further revenue.

Never, ever agreed that the right reaction to a spike in demand at the end of last season was to flood a market our size with more supply.

Guaranteed we'll see Lamping at the next State of the Franchise lamenting the fact that our average ticket prices fell or stagnating, while ignoring the fact that that's how economics work when you offer unlimited supply.

I don't think it's something we need to jump into this year, or next year, or the year after, but if five years from now, well ahead of the lease expiring in 2029, we can work out an agreement with the Jags on the details of a major renovation, contingent on a 15+ year extension of the stadium lease, we save ourself a lot of stress by getting ahead of it.

Steve

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Re: Jaguars New Stadium?
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2019, 11:08:45 AM »
Hindsight's 20/20, but I said it last year, and I'll say it again this year.

Removing those tarps permanently was a big mistake.

The tarps weren't put up because the Jags were terrible and no one wanted to go to the games, but rather because the stadium was and is too large for a market our size.

Best things the Jags could do is continue to make improvements to the existing stadium to better protect fans from the elements and reduce capacity.

56,000 to 59,000 feels like a great sweet spot (Soldier Field in Chicago is only 61,500), for so many reasons:

1) You create a genuine demand for tickets that has never existed in Jacksonville aside from a few isolated games
2) You price out traveling fans and create more of a home field advantage (especially with a cover to amplify sound)
3) You always sell out, potentially have a waiting list for season tickets, and eliminate all talk of substandard attendance

Kneejerk reaction is that the Jags would never go for it because they'd be leaving money on the table, but the reality is, they could charge a lot more per ticket with a reduced capacity, and as the market grows and the Jags hopefully start winning consistently, you could start to think about things like limited PSLs to drive further revenue.

Never, ever agreed that the right reaction to a spike in demand at the end of last season was to flood a market our size with more supply.

Guaranteed we'll see Lamping at the next State of the Franchise lamenting the fact that our average ticket prices fell or stagnating, while ignoring the fact that that's how economics work when you offer unlimited supply.

I don't think it's something we need to jump into this year, or next year, or the year after, but if five years from now, well ahead of the lease expiring in 2029, we can work out an agreement with the Jags on the details of a major renovation, contingent on a 15+ year extension of the stadium lease, we save ourself a lot of stress by getting ahead of it.

The challenge is Florida/Georgia, where we have to have 82k seats. The more you yank out, the more you have to add temporarily, and it's getting expensive at present to add the number we already have to add.

Charles Hunter

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Re: Jaguars New Stadium?
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2019, 11:29:09 AM »
Hindsight's 20/20, but I said it last year, and I'll say it again this year.

Removing those tarps permanently was a big mistake.

The tarps weren't put up because the Jags were terrible and no one wanted to go to the games, but rather because the stadium was and is too large for a market our size.

Best things the Jags could do is continue to make improvements to the existing stadium to better protect fans from the elements and reduce capacity.

56,000 to 59,000 feels like a great sweet spot (Soldier Field in Chicago is only 61,500), for so many reasons:

1) You create a genuine demand for tickets that has never existed in Jacksonville aside from a few isolated games
2) You price out traveling fans and create more of a home field advantage (especially with a cover to amplify sound)
3) You always sell out, potentially have a waiting list for season tickets, and eliminate all talk of substandard attendance

Kneejerk reaction is that the Jags would never go for it because they'd be leaving money on the table, but the reality is, they could charge a lot more per ticket with a reduced capacity, and as the market grows and the Jags hopefully start winning consistently, you could start to think about things like limited PSLs to drive further revenue.

Never, ever agreed that the right reaction to a spike in demand at the end of last season was to flood a market our size with more supply.

Guaranteed we'll see Lamping at the next State of the Franchise lamenting the fact that our average ticket prices fell or stagnating, while ignoring the fact that that's how economics work when you offer unlimited supply.

I don't think it's something we need to jump into this year, or next year, or the year after, but if five years from now, well ahead of the lease expiring in 2029, we can work out an agreement with the Jags on the details of a major renovation, contingent on a 15+ year extension of the stadium lease, we save ourself a lot of stress by getting ahead of it.

The challenge is Florida/Georgia, where we have to have 82k seats. The more you yank out, the more you have to add temporarily, and it's getting expensive at present to add the number we already have to add.

In principle, I agree with KenFSU, but Steve has an excellent point, we have to be able to get 82k bodies into the stadium if we want to keep the FL/GA game.  It may come to a point where the City will have to choose between the Jaguars and the Gators/Bulldogs.  How would reduced capacity, to the 60k or less range, affect efforts to attract other college games?  Watching the Gator Bowl on TV, with all the empty seats, the smaller capacity would be a good thing.

KenFSU

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Re: Jaguars New Stadium?
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2019, 12:04:47 PM »
^Personally, I'd rather do the modern NFL experience really, really well in Jacksonville and keep the Jags happy than maintain a 67k-82k stadium in hopes of keeping Florida/Georgia or attracting other big ticket games. I'd rather not have to make the choice - and I'd hope that a state-of-the-art, reduced capacity stadium that could accomodate maybe 70k with standing room and temporary seating, along with the new entertainment complex and hotel next door, would be enough to keep the game in Jacksonville.

Legit 80% of the perception problems the Jaguars have had in terms of attendance, and blackouts, and potential relocation resulted from the city's decision to build the new Jaguars stadium to Florida-Georgia scale back in 1993. Wayne Weaver wanted a much smaller stadium. That one decision changed the narrative for decades to come from "the Jags' loyal fan base is consistently selling out a 60,000 seat stadium" to "the Jags only drew 60k and are blacked out again - look at all the empty seats!"

If you look at stadium size per capita across all NFL MSAs, this market should realistically only be able to handle a 30,000 seat stadium at standard NFL ticket prices (hence why our tickets are so cheap, relative the rest of the league).

I'd argue that appeasing the Jags and securing the NFL here through the 2040s at least has to supercede keeping a single college game here. Particularly with how much the Jags are pumping into the community versus Florida/Georgia.

Hate that it's an NFL reality that every city has to constantly keep up with the Joneses in terms of stadiums, but if we can head off new stadium talk and start mutually agreeing on renovation plans now that will result in a reasonable extension of the stadium lease in 2029, might as well start having those talks. Particularly if Khan's grand plans for Lot J and the Shipyards should, in theory, provide a nice windfall to our bed taxes to help finance the next round of stadium work.

And when you add the cover to the stadium, get rid of the Bud Zone. Might be an unpopular opinion, but if you want the seats full, you can't give thousands of people an air-conditioned lounge with a better view of the game to hang out in.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 12:07:23 PM by KenFSU »

Steve

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Re: Jaguars New Stadium?
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2019, 12:18:11 PM »
I'd argue that appeasing the Jags and securing the NFL here through the 2040s at least has to supercede keeping a single college game here. Particularly with how much the Jags are pumping into the community versus Florida/Georgia.

I feel like from an economic development standpoint, it's like the Jaguars are water and Florida/Georgia is food. Of the two water is more important, but the decision sucks. The problem is they're already adding about as many seats as could be added (part of the reason the pool deck is mostly concrete with things that can be removed; it provides a flat platform), without a pretty major wholesale change.

BridgeTroll

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Re: Jaguars New Stadium?
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2019, 12:28:39 PM »
Been saying this for years...  8)

Quote
get rid of the Bud Zone. Might be an unpopular opinion, but if you want the seats full, you can't give thousands of people an air-conditioned lounge with a better view of the game to hang out in.
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Wacca Pilatka

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Re: Jaguars New Stadium?
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2019, 12:33:11 PM »

56,000 to 59,000 feels like a great sweet spot (Soldier Field in Chicago is only 61,500), for so many reasons:

That seems to be the trend, exceptions like Jerry World notwithstanding.  The proposed replacement stadium for Washington is only 60,000 or so, and not too long ago they had little trouble selling out a 90,000 seat venue.
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Kerry

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Re: Jaguars New Stadium?
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2019, 12:33:24 PM »
At some point Jacksonville will grow weary of Khan's and Lamping's veiled threats and blackmail. This whole story plant is about greasing the taxpayer for more "partnership".

I'm already there.  I will volunteer to help them load the moving van for London.  The two happiest days in Jax history #1 The day the Jags arrived.  #2 The day the Jags leave.
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pierre

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Re: Jaguars New Stadium?
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2019, 01:37:50 PM »
The proposed replacement stadium for Washington is only 60,000 or so, and not too long ago they had little trouble selling out a 90,000 seat venue.

It's been a while. They have been removing seats for years and still cannot sell out.

Tacachale

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Re: Jaguars New Stadium?
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2019, 01:57:51 PM »
Who cares if there are empty seats. The whole sellout thing was a scam by the NFL to threaten cities with blackouts so that games looked slightly better on TV. Now that that nonsense is in the past, it really doesn't matter.
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downtownbrown

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Re: Jaguars New Stadium?
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2019, 02:31:32 PM »
At some point Jacksonville will grow weary of Khan's and Lamping's veiled threats and blackmail. This whole story plant is about greasing the taxpayer for more "partnership".

I'm already there.  I will volunteer to help them load the moving van for London.  The two happiest days in Jax history #1 The day the Jags arrived.  #2 The day the Jags leave.

I always appreciate Kerry's view of the world.  I like a guy whose face would break if he cracked a smile. I want the Jags to stay, but it does not go without notice that Khan has not done anything but tease for years.  Except Daily's, which of course, is his own profit center.  And he is holding the city, the state, and all of us hostage over the ramps.  The ramps are the equivalent of Trump's wall.

MusicMan

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Re: Jaguars New Stadium?
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2019, 04:44:23 PM »
1.  For Florida -Georgia fewer seats works fine, just charge more!  You will always find 60,000 or so Dawgs and Gators who will pay whatever the hell the ticket price is.

2. Khan has supposedly made $1.2 billion in equity owning what is arguably one of the 5 waekest franchises in the NFL.  Do fannies in seats really matter?

Kerry

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Re: Jaguars New Stadium?
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2019, 04:55:38 PM »
2. Khan has supposedly made $1.2 billion in equity owning what is arguably one of the 5 waekest franchises in the NFL.  Do fannies in seats really matter?

In these "partnerships" Khan keeps talking about, does the City get any of that $1.2 billion?
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KenFSU

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Re: Jaguars New Stadium?
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2019, 05:22:34 PM »
In these "partnerships" Khan keeps talking about, does the City get any of that $1.2 billion?

The $1.2 billion appreciation, driven by massive increases in television deals by the NFL, is only value on paper unless Khan sells all or part of the franchise.

In reality, the Jags are probably only clearing about $20 million in profits per season.

The numbers aren't public, except for Green Bay, which is publicly owned ($39 million in profit, around 9th in the league, last year).

Still a pretty significant annual profit, obviously, but it's not the hundreds of millions that people assume.

Do fannies in seats really matter?

Absolutely. Particularly in the NFL, where ticket revenue from each franchise gets pooled and shared equally amongst all teams. Less ticket revenue = more pressure from the rest of the league to increase revenues through any means possible.

« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 05:25:47 PM by KenFSU »