Author Topic: Downtown Dog Park- Have We Not Learned From Mistakes Of The Past?  (Read 1087 times)

Bill Hoff

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Re: Downtown Dog Park- Have We Not Learned From Mistakes Of The Past?
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2018, 07:36:45 AM »
As for moving social services out of downtown, I challenge anyone to visit any of the so-called vibrant downtowns across this country. There are just as many, if not more, homeless. However, those places offer things that draw in other people, so they don't stand out as much.

Many people say to same about the jail; falsely (IMO) like having an old jail in an urban location = a constant crime hotspot. IMO it's the exact opposite. IMO it's no big deal and it's common to have a jail downtown (with virtually no crime detriment) but you build a jail in a suburban or even rural area, that area will be affected dramatically.

The holding cells themselves aren't a problem. The problem is that every scum bag, crack head and idiot that gets arrested is eventually (often very quickly) released at the jail, as well. And a big chunk of those people don't have the ability or support system to travel back where they came from. So they linger for some amount of time. And if someone was arrested due a mental health issue (the jail is the largest mental health provider in the county), they often become "stuck" Downtown, now one of the customers of the social services packed into Downtown.

thelakelander

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Re: Downtown Dog Park- Have We Not Learned From Mistakes Of The Past?
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2018, 08:22:04 AM »
Where is it different? Right now, I'm failing to see how the location of the jail and social services in downtown hurts Jax revitalization but it doesn't in other cities. What exactly are they doing that we aren't? I think if we truly look into answering that question, it answer has more to do with excelling in other areas like clustering complementing uses within a compact setting than directly spending millions to shift these facilities to other areas of the city.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

I-10east

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Re: Downtown Dog Park- Have We Not Learned From Mistakes Of The Past?
« Reply #17 on: October 22, 2018, 01:53:15 AM »
The holding cells themselves aren't a problem. The problem is that every scum bag, crack head and idiot that gets arrested is eventually (often very quickly) released at the jail, as well. And a big chunk of those people don't have the ability or support system to travel back where they came from. So they linger for some amount of time. And if someone was arrested due a mental health issue (the jail is the largest mental health provider in the county), they often become "stuck" Downtown, now one of the customers of the social services packed into Downtown.

Those concerns sound reasonable, and I agree that they are definitely low life scumbags out there being released from jail (wherever they go after jail, who knows); many people in this PC era try to sugarcoat situation like that, like all leopards change their spots.

I'm just saying, I don't remember anything from either of the three local news broadcasts along the lines of "Man Who Just Been Released From Jail Attacks A Jogger on the Riverwalk" or anything like that; if you saw such a news story before, I'll be very interested to check it out. Besides, the JSO HQ basically on the premises is a HUGE deterrent for reoffending in the area. The entire area is basically a de facto police rovering area.


Bill Hoff

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Re: Downtown Dog Park- Have We Not Learned From Mistakes Of The Past?
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2018, 10:15:26 AM »
Where is it different? Right now, I'm failing to see how the location of the jail and social services in downtown hurts Jax revitalization but it doesn't in other cities. What exactly are they doing that we aren't? I think if we truly look into answering that question, it answer has more to do with excelling in other areas like clustering complementing uses within a compact setting than directly spending millions to shift these facilities to other areas of the city.

I don't know where it is different. I haven't studied the proximity of similar services and their models to areas that are working on incremental small scale revitalization efforts, in other similiar urban cores. That'd be interesting to see. But as we know, clustering is important for vibrancy, and clustering of services is creating the wrong kind of vibrancy to aid Downtown revitalization.

Regarding spending millions, COJ/DIA already give away millions in incentives for Downtown revitalization and other development efforts. Spending millions on incentives doesn't seem to be an issue.

5+ years ago, Gulliford spearheaded a taskforce to examine the impact of social services on Downtown revitalization. They had multiple public meetings, I attended some. At that time, they used Cincinnati and Charlotte as examples of downowns that deconsolidated services to aid revitalization. The task force sort of sputtered out, and at the end of it the main recommendations to address the issues (from memory) were that the local business community needs to get involved to advocate for policies and fund programs that work, the social services need to work together to be more efficient, and a funding mechanism would be ideal to pay for more on-going effective programs. The task force was heavily influenced by the social services community, so need to take that into consideration when considering the outcome.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2018, 10:31:04 AM by Bill Hoff »