Author Topic: JBJ: JTA laying groundwork for downtown passenger rail  (Read 2769 times)

Bill Hoff

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Re: JBJ: JTA laying groundwork for downtown passenger rail
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2018, 09:07:40 PM »
Apparently everyone was pretty blown away by Union Station, and there was a lot of discussion about how to turn the Prime Osborne back into a transit hub.

Wait till they learn about San Francisco's trolleys and NYC's subway system. They're going to be very impressed.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 07:20:45 PM by Bill Hoff »

thelakelander

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Re: JBJ: JTA laying groundwork for downtown passenger rail
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2018, 09:12:03 PM »
JTA's 2004 plans to bring Amtrak and commuter rail back to the Prime Osborn:











More renderings: https://photos.metrojacksonville.com/Transit/JRTC-Amtrak-Station-Plans-and/
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thelakelander

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Re: JBJ: JTA laying groundwork for downtown passenger rail
« Reply #32 on: October 15, 2018, 09:17:10 PM »
and
Apparently everyone was pretty blown away by Union Station, and there was a lot of discussion about how to turn the Prime Osborne back into a transit hub.

Wait till they learn about San Francisco's trolleys and NYC's subway system. They're going to be very impressed.

They don't have to travel to learn. JTA CEO Nat Ford is pretty familiar with them. So if we truly want something, there should be no learning curve.



Quote
2007-04-12 07:53:56 PDT -- Muni's chief took to the stations and trains today to monitor service and reassure testy riders, days after the transit agency opened a new streetcar line that has been slowing down service throughout the Metro system.

Standing at Embarcadero Station, where trains were moving through quickly, Nathaniel Ford vowed this morning to ride the rails and haunt the stations every day until the problems are fixed.

Full article: https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Muni-boss-monitors-service-2603420.php
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KenFSU

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Re: JBJ: JTA laying groundwork for downtown passenger rail
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2018, 10:58:59 AM »
CSX is trying to sell their Panhandle line, which stretches from Jacksonville on the East, through Lake City, Tallahassee, Panama City, Pensacola, and ending in Mobile.

Any thoughts on whether this would be a viable line for passenger rail?




thelakelander

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Re: JBJ: JTA laying groundwork for downtown passenger rail
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2018, 11:29:38 AM »
I've heard from a credible source in the transportation industry that Brightline representatives have mentioned their desire to expand to Tallahassee in the future. I don't know the viable this line is for passenger rail but I assume it's less viable than first extending to Jax. I also believe it needs News Orleans as a destination to enhance the potential return of passenger rail on this corridor.
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Tacachale

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Re: JBJ: JTA laying groundwork for downtown passenger rail
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2018, 12:54:35 PM »
Not sure if it's what you're asking, but there used to be passenger rail on that line with Amtrak - the Sunset Limited. It was suspended after Hurricane Katrina and has apparently been hung up since then because Mississippi and Alabama haven't wanted to chip in for the restoration. Apparently traffic between New Orleans and Jax was a significant chunk of the whole line's traffic (it went to LA) so at least Amtrak would have an incentive to get it back on line. I don't know what Brightline could be planning except running a train on the same line between Jax and Tallahassee.
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Ocklawaha

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Re: JBJ: JTA laying groundwork for downtown passenger rail
« Reply #36 on: October 31, 2018, 03:17:26 PM »
Deja Vu Y'all! I'm still watching from the my perch in Mount Dora... OR Medellin... Or Milwaukee...

Although ignored by traditional media... Brightline offers a bigger opportunity for downtown than anything we've seen proposed for The District, the Shipyards and Lot J.

And it just so happens that a major transportation consultant (and spouse of a Florida East Coast Industries executive) is running for City Council in District 5, seeking to fill the office currently held by termed-out Lori Boyer.

Brightline is probably as large an opportunity as a couple of new Fortune 500's landing downtown. Fact is, if ANYTHING can attract such new companies to our city, ultra-modern rail (Urban-Intrastate and Interstate) is key, otherwise the best of our presentations of downtown Jacksonville is simply a two-legged stool.

Waiting on JTA for commuter rail is a pipe dream. It ain't happening anytime soon. Considering the limited operational characteristics identified in their last commuter rail study, I'm not even sure it's worth the time and money.

Precisely!

The key to local urban rail is Rapid-Streetcar (borrows from Light-Rail, but with smaller less costly infrastructure) to the Airport following the 'S' and/or 'F&J' route across the Trout along North Main and on to JIA. But there is ZERO INTEREST...

The key to commuter rail, IF and WHEN Brightline arrives and IF they serve St. Augustine is for JTA to use DMU's along the 'A-Line' (Roosevelt) to Green Cove Springs, or even an extension of Sunrail in a 'CALTRAIN' type service. Without Brightline it remains a pipe dream.

^Pretty much this. They don't own any track near downtown Orlando. Sunrail also already serves DT Orlando. The plan in Orlando is to connect Sunrail to Orlando International Airport and Brightline's stop there. I don't see how Orlando's Brightline stop location has any relationship to what may or may not happen in Jax.

I believe Brightline already senses trouble on the Orlando leg, though they must have it, it is destined to be something of an operational oddity.
A Realestate-Transportation venture that misses both Realestate and the resident population is in trouble. Orlando is rightly very proud of their International Airport, but I've yet to meet the first resident who thinks driving 30 miles to a former Air Force Base is a good location. With more and more mid-rise residential towers going up, downtown is exploding... Two or three more 15+ story's announced just this AM. So by using a leased station with poor access to the core city, you have a huge bump in what should be a seamless trip. What they'll catch are thousands of tourist travelers, they'll get a trickle from locals and breaking a trip onto/off of Sunrail is a non-starter for most. Sunrail is sexy but its ridership is quite poor. Hundreds of Lynx Transit Buses (with abysmal scheduling) try and make the connections, one passenger here, two there. I believe this is why they suddenly jumped on the idea of 'TAMPA!' Even though they don't have any tracks in that direction. The sale of much of CSX intrastate could play a role in this, we'll have to watch.

CSX is trying to sell their Panhandle line, which stretches from Jacksonville on the East, through Lake City, Tallahassee, Panama City, Pensacola, and ending in Mobile.

Any thoughts on whether this would be a viable line for passenger rail?

Depending on how much urban development/TOD they can produce in Tallahassee it might make the cut, but my gut is this famous 'Route of the Gulf Wind,' has very little potential for intercity passenger rail, especially with Amtrak set on destruction of the National Route System and going to a system of short corridors... Chipley, Crestview, Quincy, Monticello, Madison, Macclenny... Hardly the stuff dreams are made of. The reason I say GULF WIND, is there were actually two trains daily each way for a number of years until Amtrak in 1971. The state fought to get the route back and they were tossed a bone with an extended 'SUNSET LIMITED'. Undeniably the worst, slowest, unwanted tri-weekly train in the country. Gee no tickets to Marianna at 3 AM? What a shock. FYI - The Gulf Wind ran JACKSONVILLE-NEW ORLEANS, as did its sisters, passengers for Orlando, Miami, Tampa, Savannah, New York, or Chicago, Kansas City, Dallas, Los Angeles changed at one of the end-point terminals. 

bl8jaxnative

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Re: JBJ: JTA laying groundwork for downtown passenger rail
« Reply #37 on: November 04, 2018, 02:49:59 PM »
I've heard from a credible source in the transportation industry that Brightline representatives have mentioned their desire to expand to Tallahassee in the future. I don't know the viable this line is for passenger rail but I assume it's less viable than first extending to Jax. I also believe it needs News Orleans as a destination to enhance the potential return of passenger rail on this corridor.

Many a drunken college student has boastfully exclaimed all sorts of grand plans, rarely have they ever come true.

Tallahassee for HSR makes no sense.  It's about the same size as Fargo, ND and nearly as isolated.  About the only practical difference is that one is famous for a wood chipper, the other the tomahawk chop.

All this talk of running a line to Tampa, running a line to JAX and now the rumors of Tallahassee has the making of making sure to touch every part of the state.

If I were a betting person, I'd say Brightline knows their business plan is toast without even more public monies.   They're sowing the seeds of dreamy grand plans to try to go to the politicians hat-in-hand, looking for big funds.   

thelakelander

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Re: JBJ: JTA laying groundwork for downtown passenger rail
« Reply #38 on: November 04, 2018, 02:59:19 PM »
Definitely not drunken college students. Time will tell if upper management in the respective organizations know what they're talking about or if bl8jaxnative is right about them being out of their minds.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali