Author Topic: Convention Center Wars  (Read 8979 times)

thelakelander

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #60 on: August 16, 2018, 01:18:40 PM »
The hotel site seems suburban to me. I also don't like the superblock created by closing Newnan. Though, I'm guessing most convention center proposals would do that too.

Also, lift the ting up and do a floor of retail vs. ground floor residential over there.

It will be interesting to see if they get the same push back Sleiman got when he wanted to build over Hogan Street.  Also, revamping the old City Hall into a hotel would be way more impressive than the little thing with the big surface lot in the heart of DT.
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ProjectMaximus

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #61 on: August 16, 2018, 01:20:30 PM »
I do like the idea of one parking garage to rule them all out by the stadium so that the core isn't riddled with 500 space garages on every block.  The master lot J garage for Football, Daily's, the new arena venue, the convention center, the new hotels, the Doro District, Intuition, baseball...etc. I like how St Augustine built one monster garage on the periphery to keep the historic area intact.  That said, I want to make sure that we effectively bring conventioneers into the core to support local businesses and restaurants and make sure they are experiencing authentic Jacksonville.  I don't want them stuck out in the lot J area at some contrived Jacksonville nightlife like splitsville, howl at the moon, chili's and yardhouse.

You forgot Coyote Ugly. But I completely agree.

thelakelander

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #62 on: August 16, 2018, 01:30:10 PM »
Other than that the food hall component, I find the rest of it pretty underwhelming. Bay Street should be lined with commercial space on both blocks and the hotel site is about as suburban as something one can stick in the middle of the Northbank. If we don't use this site for a convention center, I'd hope we can find a way to maximize the property with more density.
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Jagsdrew

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2018, 01:40:17 PM »
Totally agree with Lake. Pretty underwhelming outside the food hall. Wish they would get rid of Market St and Courthouse drive. No sense in including vehicles through that area. 
Twitter: @Jagsdrew

KenFSU

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2018, 01:45:19 PM »
Silver lining:

There's absolutely no way that we can legally agree to this anyway.

The Courthouse property was RFP'd for a convention center, not mixed used.

Even if we picked the Shipyards for a convention center, we'd still need to re-RFP the Courthouse site for mixed use.

There's at least one more interested party in mixed use at the Courthouse site.

Hyatt's right of first refusal doesn't give them the right to turn down an idea for the property, it just gives them the right to match whatever offer comes in for it.

Steve

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2018, 02:48:55 PM »
Totally agree with Lake. Pretty underwhelming outside the food hall. Wish they would get rid of Market St and Courthouse drive. No sense in including vehicles through that area. 

Ingress and Egress for the Hyatt, it’s 1,000 hotel rooms and 120,00 SqFt of exhibit space. They aren’t going anywhere.

Case in point why the site should be a convention center.

thelakelander

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #66 on: August 16, 2018, 03:02:13 PM »
Considering the Hyatt, it doesn't make sense. They expect trucks to make all those tight turns to get to the Hyatt's loading docks on Market Street?
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Steve

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #67 on: August 16, 2018, 03:42:48 PM »
Considering the Hyatt, it doesn't make sense. They expect trucks to make all those tight turns to get to the Hyatt's loading docks on Market Street?

These renderings look like they come from a company that is used to doing suburban design where you just have to figure out wetland mitigation and how many trees to cut down. Doesn’t look like typical urban design.

downtownbrown

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #68 on: August 16, 2018, 04:05:47 PM »
Big difference between "Food Hall" and Restaurants.  Food Hall is what you find on the second floor of the Landing.  No thanks.

thelakelander

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2018, 04:18:12 PM »
Not true. What's in the Landing is a food court. Food courts and food halls are two completely different things. The driving principles behind the modern food hall are authenticity, quality and celebration of food culture. These principles tend to be the complete opposite of the traditional American food court, which focus on fast-food mantras of familiarity, predictability and mass production. The most successful food halls also tend to contain interactive layouts by hosting live entertainment and social events, which allows consumers to experience the space in a variety of ways. Many food halls actually have sit-down restaurant's and bars in them as well.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

jagsonville

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #70 on: August 16, 2018, 05:05:08 PM »
Winter Garden has a nice little food hall anchored by crooked can brewing if you are looking for an example pretty close to home. I think this development is ok, not the best but it’s also not a pie in the sky development. I just find it odd that it was released with an ongoing rfp for a convention center still unsealed to the public. Let the lawsuits commence! Lol

thelakelander

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #71 on: August 16, 2018, 05:18:13 PM »
Here's a few pics of Winter Garden's Plant Street Market that I took a few months back. It's 12,000 square feet.











"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Kiva

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #72 on: August 16, 2018, 06:08:59 PM »
It looks a lot more busy than the Landing!

KenFSU

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #73 on: August 16, 2018, 07:17:16 PM »
DIA's sticking to the rules, selecting a winner from the three bids originally submitted, and then figuring the rest out with the city later.

jaxnyc79

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #74 on: August 17, 2018, 07:53:16 AM »
Other than that the food hall component, I find the rest of it pretty underwhelming. Bay Street should be lined with commercial space on both blocks and the hotel site is about as suburban as something one can stick in the middle of the Northbank. If we don't use this site for a convention center, I'd hope we can find a way to maximize the property with more density.

Great - Yet Another Rendering from Iguana and its Partners.
Why is this all so difficult?  Is there 3-D software to simulate these developments at street-level so that planners and approvers have a clearer sense of just how dead downtown will remain if these developments without streetscape activation continue to persist?  My God, a surface parking lot right on the waterfront (next to hotel)?  It's a no-brainer.  The buildings should all abut a wide sidewalk, Bay Street should take on a dense, walkable, commercially-clustered corridor as it does wind through high-rises.  Put commercial/retail on the ground floor, with the apartments above that, and right on the sidewalk.  Same thing with the hotel!  It should abut the side walk, and restaurant or convenience store uses should be at ground level. 

Why is Jax so afraid of the cluster?