Author Topic: Convention Center Wars  (Read 12903 times)

Charles Hunter

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2018, 04:00:02 PM »
Regarding BJP projects not done, there were several grade-separated intersections in the BJP that did not get built.  Also, some road widenings that were deferred to a subsequent gas tax backed bond - for example Collins, Kernan, Girvin, and San Pablo Roads.  JTA is working on all of them now.

jaxnyc79

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2018, 05:06:51 PM »
Would the city have gotten away with making the public works projects mixed use?  For example, a main library with residential?

The City leased one of the retail spaces in the Library to a successful coffee shop operator.... and would not give them any outdoor signage, outdoor seating and ability to be open during non-Library hours (seriously, a coffee shop that doesn't open until 9 in the morning??). The operator eventually closed, and the two retail spaces have been empty since (I don't consider giving free rent to Hemming Park and a free makerspace to be 'occupied'). Right across the street, the city-owned Snyder Memorial building has been empty for decades (still no RFP issued to reuse that space). A few blocks to the east, office space within the City-owned Florida Theater building sits empty. A few blocks to the south, the City is suing the owner of the Jacksonville Landing- where the City leases the land to a private operator who owns the buildings (all while the City purposely does not maintain the property- despite the requirements within their lease).  A few blocks to the West, empty lots owned by the City adjacent to the Courthouse have yet to be offered up for redevelopment opportunities. One block West of that, a City-owned building sits empty and falling in on itself, while the City refused to sell because the 'price was too low' yet after 15 years the City has not put one dime into maintaining the building. Two blocks to the east of that, the City-owned 'Lee and Cates' building (empty for 15+ years) is slowly being sold to a bonafide developer who has tried to buy the building for at least 8 years (while the building is falling down). A few blocks further West, the (COJ-owned) renovated Brewster Hospital building sits unoccupied while the City wrangles with a non-profit seeking to lease space in the building. A few blocks to the north of that, the COJ-owned 'Sax Seafood' building sits empty 15 years after the City built it.

Point is... the City is an AWFUL landlord. Quite frankly, COJ is not equipped to be in that business. So, no COJ should not be in the business of using taxpayer money to build, own and lease residential buildings.

jaxnyc79

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #47 on: August 14, 2018, 05:07:18 PM »
Would the city have gotten away with making the public works projects mixed use?  For example, a main library with residential?

The City leased one of the retail spaces in the Library to a successful coffee shop operator.... and would not give them any outdoor signage, outdoor seating and ability to be open during non-Library hours (seriously, a coffee shop that doesn't open until 9 in the morning??). The operator eventually closed, and the two retail spaces have been empty since (I don't consider giving free rent to Hemming Park and a free makerspace to be 'occupied'). Right across the street, the city-owned Snyder Memorial building has been empty for decades (still no RFP issued to reuse that space). A few blocks to the east, office space within the City-owned Florida Theater building sits empty. A few blocks to the south, the City is suing the owner of the Jacksonville Landing- where the City leases the land to a private operator who owns the buildings (all while the City purposely does not maintain the property- despite the requirements within their lease).  A few blocks to the West, empty lots owned by the City adjacent to the Courthouse have yet to be offered up for redevelopment opportunities. One block West of that, a City-owned building sits empty and falling in on itself, while the City refused to sell because the 'price was too low' yet after 15 years the City has not put one dime into maintaining the building. Two blocks to the east of that, the City-owned 'Lee and Cates' building (empty for 15+ years) is slowly being sold to a bonafide developer who has tried to buy the building for at least 8 years (while the building is falling down). A few blocks further West, the (COJ-owned) renovated Brewster Hospital building sits unoccupied while the City wrangles with a non-profit seeking to lease space in the building. A few blocks to the north of that, the COJ-owned 'Sax Seafood' building sits empty 15 years after the City built it.

Point is... the City is an AWFUL landlord. Quite frankly, COJ is not equipped to be in that business. So, no COJ should not be in the business of using taxpayer money to build, own and lease residential buildings.

Sax Seafood should never have been built - the design is prosaic and even the restaurant name is cringe-worthy. 
Point taken on funding residential, although doesn't the city already do that?
I agree - the city is a horrible property manager, and should probably contractually delegate property management, be it commercial/retail/residential to a third party with expertise and depth in management.
I was merely stating that in the future, if the city wants to undertake massive capital projects downtown, some sort of public-private partnership to shift away from single-use projects to mixed-use, would be nice.   

KenFSU

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #48 on: August 16, 2018, 10:44:10 AM »
Wow, things are heating up.

Iguana/Rimrock/DeBartolo just submitted a revised proposal that includes BOTH the Shipyards and the Old Courthouse site.

In addition to partnering with Iguana for the convention center at the Shipyards, Rimrock would build an additional mixed-use development called Riverwalk Place at the old courthouse site, which would include a 347-unit luxury apartment complex, an additional 150-room hotel, 10,000 square feet of restaurant space and a 468 parking space parking garage.

https://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2018/08/16/developers-sweeten-shipyards-convention-center-bid.html

Interesting twist.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 10:49:37 AM by KenFSU »

downtownbrown

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #49 on: August 16, 2018, 11:09:16 AM »
Sign the deal!!!!

Kiva

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #50 on: August 16, 2018, 11:21:17 AM »
One paragraph from the article says: "The city is not bound to decide on one of the responses to the RFP, two of which came from companies based in Texas. There potentially could be legal issues, however, if that request for proposals wasn't made in good faith."

More litigation? Just what we need!

Dolph1975

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #51 on: August 16, 2018, 11:47:25 AM »

Captain Zissou

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #52 on: August 16, 2018, 11:48:33 AM »
I do think the best spot for the convention center is the courthouse site, but I really like the way that development looks and embraces the waterfront.

Edit: After seeing the site plan, I don't like the parking and the garage entrance that front bay street.  Bay and the water should have maximum street/water interaction and all utilities should be accessed from Liberty & Newnan.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 11:57:40 AM by Captain Zissou »

itsfantastic1

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #53 on: August 16, 2018, 11:55:39 AM »
They must've been spying on this forum as the waterfront venue is a food hall...

KenFSU

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #54 on: August 16, 2018, 12:08:49 PM »
I actually prefer mixed use at the Courthouse site versus a Convention Center.

It's a great spot that I'd prefer belong to the people rather than the conventioneers.

To CZ's point above, I'm not wild about the design and it's very much Landing 2.0 in the way that it turns its back to downtown.

Would also love to see that 100 space surface parking lot folded into the garage.

This could get pretty ugly though.

For this particular project to happen, the city would have to make good with the other two firms who submitted bids so we don't get sued, then re-RFP the Courthouse site for mixed use.

The fact that nobody is paying any attention to the actual RFP process is hilariously Jacksonville.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 12:42:47 PM by KenFSU »

Captain Zissou

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #55 on: August 16, 2018, 12:35:59 PM »
I actually prefer mixed use at the Courthouse site versus a Convention Center.

It's a great spot that I'd prefer belong to the people rather than the conventioneers.
I do like the idea of one parking garage to rule them all out by the stadium so that the core isn't riddled with 500 space garages on every block.  The master lot J garage for Football, Daily's, the new arena venue, the convention center, the new hotels, the Doro District, Intuition, baseball...etc. I like how St Augustine built one monster garage on the periphery to keep the historic area intact.  That said, I want to make sure that we effectively bring conventioneers into the core to support local businesses and restaurants and make sure they are experiencing authentic Jacksonville.  I don't want them stuck out in the lot J area at some contrived Jacksonville nightlife like splitsville, howl at the moon, chili's and yardhouse.

KenFSU

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #56 on: August 16, 2018, 12:53:44 PM »
What's most amazing to me about this whole thing is that Rimrock DeBartolo went through all the trouble and cost of submitting a bid for a convention center at the old courthouse site, only to turn around less than two weeks later to say that the "We believe the Shipyards is the optimal location for the Convention Center and hotel because of its riverfront location, ability to expand if needed, and synergies gained from its proximity to the existing sports venues and other development activities planned in the immediate aftermath."

They effectively shredded their convention center proposal.

You can't make this stuff up.

Steve

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #57 on: August 16, 2018, 12:55:05 PM »
The hotel site seems suburban to me. I also don't like the superblock created by closing Newnan. Though, I'm guessing most convention center proposals would do that too.

Also, lift the ting up and do a floor of retail vs. ground floor residential over there.

Downtown Osprey

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #58 on: August 16, 2018, 12:58:34 PM »
I actually prefer mixed use at the Courthouse site versus a Convention Center.

It's a great spot that I'd prefer belong to the people rather than the conventioneers.
I do like the idea of one parking garage to rule them all out by the stadium so that the core isn't riddled with 500 space garages on every block.  The master lot J garage for Football, Daily's, the new arena venue, the convention center, the new hotels, the Doro District, Intuition, baseball...etc. I like how St Augustine built one monster garage on the periphery to keep the historic area intact.  That said, I want to make sure that we effectively bring conventioneers into the core to support local businesses and restaurants and make sure they are experiencing authentic Jacksonville.  I don't want them stuck out in the lot J area at some contrived Jacksonville nightlife like splitsville, howl at the moon, chili's and yardhouse.

Speaking of the Doro Distrct....What has been the news (if any) on that? The last I remember was plans for possible apartments, bowling alley and more. I loved the idea when I first read about it.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2018, 01:03:19 PM by Downtown Osprey »

vicupstate

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Re: Convention Center Wars
« Reply #59 on: August 16, 2018, 01:04:52 PM »
Doesn't the Hyatt have Right of First Refusal on the city hall annex/courthouse site? If so, why would they agree to having a competitor built next door, especially if the CC isn't part of the deal?

If you are going to put a hotel or apartments behind the Hyatt, why not just convert the building that is already there?

Ground floor apartments on Bay st. is not ideal. Should be retail level on the ground.

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