Author Topic: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa  (Read 135125 times)

marcuscnelson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1494
  • Gen Z - Tired of the status quo
Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #405 on: November 09, 2021, 10:06:55 AM »
That's nuts.

While this thread is up here, now that the infrastructure bill has passed, I wonder how Brightline is going to angle itself for the intercity grants, assuming they seek to do so. Based on the plans we've heard, and knowing the programs are only funded for 5 years, it seems unclear how they'd get more than the Tampa expansion funded unless they're able to accelerate timelines somehow.

Is there any leftover structure from the 2010 HSR plan that they'd be able to maneuver into getting a grant?
So, to the young people fighting in this movement for change, here is my charge: march in the streets, protest, run for school committee or city council or the state legislature. And win. - Ed Markey

jaxjaguar

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 732
Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #406 on: November 09, 2021, 10:54:54 AM »
Clearly one of the problems, in operating high speed rail at street level in SoFla, are the incredible numbers of elderly drivers...

This is the problem with Rick Scott not accepting funding the true high speed rail back in 2011. We've lost more land to development since then and now it's even more difficult and expensive to create elevated tracks required for true high speed rail. The "Higher Speed rail" we're getting (still irks me to say that) is slower and cheaper because they can remain at grade. This not only causes dangerous pedestrian and automobile encounters, it also impacts future improvements. This is the problem California is facing with their high speed rail line. They've waited so long there's no land left, so it's 1000's of times more expensive to build and they're hitting NIMBY's left and right.

On the one hand it's good that we're getting something, but faith will be eroded as more of these car accidents happen and cause delays and additional expense. Eventually you'll start hearing "we wasted so much money on this we just need to end it", because it wasn't built right the first time AND "I'd rather drive since it's faster and more reliable." I already see that here in Orlando. We live right next to the Sunrail Station, but no one uses it because the schedule isn't convenient and when the monthly dumb, dumb that parks between the crossing arms you're stranded because clearing the tracks after an accident takes so long.

CityLife

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2049
Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #407 on: November 09, 2021, 11:21:07 AM »
Clearly one of the problems, in operating high speed rail at street level in SoFla, are the incredible numbers of elderly drivers...

The South Florida metro area is only 18.6% people over the age of 65. Jax Metro is 16.2%.

But, no, one elderly person getting hit by a train does not clearly make it a problem. It's actually usually younger people that are being more aggressive and trying to beat the trains or are people committing suicide. At one point, 75% of Brightline deaths were from suicide.

I like you MusicMan, but you win at Jump To Conclusions today

acme54321

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2856
Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #408 on: November 09, 2021, 01:07:39 PM »
Sounds potentially suicidal.  I mean, you'd have to try pretty hard to do that.

MusicMan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2609
Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #409 on: November 09, 2021, 02:24:22 PM »
I lived down there for 15 years, and frequently visit. Do you?  Brightline runs from West Palm down to Miami, and there are tons of elderly drivers just trying to see over the dashboard of their (often) very expensive car.  Especially between now and May 1st. Drive US 1 from WP to Miami and tell me what YOU see.
Brightline hugs that road .....

CityLife

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2049
Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #410 on: November 09, 2021, 03:09:37 PM »
I lived down there for 15 years, and frequently visit. Do you?  Brightline runs from West Palm down to Miami, and there are tons of elderly drivers just trying to see over the dashboard of their (often) very expensive car.  Especially between now and May 1st. Drive US 1 from WP to Miami and tell me what YOU see.
Brightline hugs that road .....

I currently live in and have had family in South Florida since the 50's...

As I stated, the proportion of citizens over the age of 65 isn't much different than Jax. Are there more seasonal elderly residents? Absolutely, but all of that is irrelevant because your hypothesis based on one accident is flawed. There is no data or evidence that elderly people are the ones getting hit by Brightline trains. As I said in another post, it is largely due to people (mostly pedestrians and cyclists) trying to beat the trains (something elderly people don't do) or suicides.

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/brightline-and-tri-rail-have-killed-dozens-in-south-florida-11089400

From the article:
"Since Brightline began test runs in the summer of 2017, 15 people have been killed on its tracks. At least ten others have been seriously injured.

All of the Brightline deaths involved pedestrians, "

Facts over hunches...

MusicMan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2609
Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #411 on: November 09, 2021, 03:32:47 PM »
I think you are correct....   from an AP article:


New higher-speed Florida train has highest US death rate
By TERRY SPENCER 2019

MIAMI (AP) — After Richard Branson announced his Virgin Group would partner with Brightline, Florida’s new higher-speed passenger rail service, a train whisked the British billionaire, VIPs and journalists from Miami to West Palm Beach in just over an hour and then back, with no problems.

That was likely a great relief to railroad staff who have dealt with a higher than average number of deaths involving the sleek, neon-yellow trains, which travel at speeds of up to 79 mph (127 kph) through some of Florida’s most densely populated cities.

The first death involving a Brightline train, which officially launched in January 2018, happened in July 2017 during test runs. Since then, 40 more have been killed — a rate of more than one a month and about one for every 29,000 miles (47,000 kilometers) the trains have traveled, according to an analysis of Federal Railroad Administration data by The Associated Press.

ADVERTISEMENT

That’s the worst per-mile death rate of the nation’s 821 railroads.

None of Brightline’s deaths were caused by crew error or faulty equipment, according to law enforcement and federal reports. The majority have been suicides, while most others involved impatient motorists, pedestrians or bicyclists who misjudged the trains’ speed and ignored bells, gates or other warnings. Drugs, alcohol or both have been found in many victims’ systems.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2021, 03:38:55 PM by MusicMan »

Pottsburg

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 161
  • Always Carry Always Conceal
Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #412 on: November 11, 2021, 01:25:28 PM »
I lived down there for 15 years, and frequently visit. Do you?  Brightline runs from West Palm down to Miami, and there are tons of elderly drivers just trying to see over the dashboard of their (often) very expensive car.  Especially between now and May 1st. Drive US 1 from WP to Miami and tell me what YOU see.
Brightline hugs that road .....

I currently live in and have had family in South Florida since the 50's...

As I stated, the proportion of citizens over the age of 65 isn't much different than Jax. Are there more seasonal elderly residents? Absolutely, but all of that is irrelevant because your hypothesis based on one accident is flawed. There is no data or evidence that elderly people are the ones getting hit by Brightline trains. As I said in another post, it is largely due to people (mostly pedestrians and cyclists) trying to beat the trains (something elderly people don't do) or suicides.

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/brightline-and-tri-rail-have-killed-dozens-in-south-florida-11089400

From the article:
"Since Brightline began test runs in the summer of 2017, 15 people have been killed on its tracks. At least ten others have been seriously injured.

All of the Brightline deaths involved pedestrians, "

Facts over hunches...

   All brightline deaths involved pedestrians is not true.  Were there pedestrians around yes, but I Personally know of more than one vehicle being struck and killing the driver.  One was in a Maserati, I promise if you get hit by a train at 79MPH you better hope you're not in a Maserati. 
Here's another one
https://youtu.be/SqbRhJtdOlw
Forza Napoli!  EPL has nothing on the Serie A

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33249
    • Modern Cities
Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #413 on: November 11, 2021, 02:00:19 PM »
Why are these vehicles sitting on the tracks to get hit by trains? Passenger or freight? Is it hard to not stop on a railroad track, regardless of if you think a train is coming or not?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2021, 02:02:35 PM by thelakelander »
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Charles Hunter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3843
Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #414 on: November 11, 2021, 02:15:49 PM »
Why are these vehicles sitting on the tracks to get hit by trains? Passenger or freight? Is it hard to not stop on a railroad track, regardless of if you think a train is coming or not?

Where the RR crossing is close to a signalized intersection - for example along Roosevelt Blvd. - and traffic backs up from the signal. Of course, the motorist should judge the distance, and whether they can clear the RR crossing, before they pull onto the tracks.

thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33249
    • Modern Cities
Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #415 on: November 11, 2021, 02:54:42 PM »
I haven't paid much attention to Brightline's improvements to the FEC corridor down there, but I'd assume they'd have dynamic envelopes in place?



If so, I'd assume the solution would be a matter of driver education and enforcement, moreso than a need to physically modify infrastructure?
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

Pottsburg

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 161
  • Always Carry Always Conceal
Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #416 on: November 12, 2021, 01:38:54 PM »
Why are these vehicles sitting on the tracks to get hit by trains? Passenger or freight? Is it hard to not stop on a railroad track, regardless of if you think a train is coming or not?

Where the RR crossing is close to a signalized intersection - for example along Roosevelt Blvd. - and traffic backs up from the signal. Of course, the motorist should judge the distance, and whether they can clear the RR crossing, before they pull onto the tracks.

     FECR has a lot of crossings like this and city traffic hooks into the system so that the light turns green when the crossing starts to activate.  That way the cars can move out of the way if they are on the tracks (Dummy Proof).  Huge intersections have advanced pre-emption to where the lights turn green for about 10 seconds and then the crossing activates.  The major problem is peoples natural instinct is to looks left and right for the train instead of looking up at the traffic light.  I've seen them do this so long that the traffic light cycles through and they look up finally and by that time its red.  Its hard to change peoples instinct and curiosity to look for the train. 
Forza Napoli!  EPL has nothing on the Serie A

CityLife

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2049
Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #417 on: January 21, 2022, 12:23:29 PM »
Quick Brightline update. South Florida service resumed in November. I took a few different trips to Miami during the holidays and it was packed each time. They have some great deals too. They offer free entrance to Frost Science Museum in Miami, Norton Museum in West Palm Beach, and Museum of Science and Discovery in Fort Lauderdale. They did the Polar Express again around Christmas, which is awesome for kids. And they restarted the Heat game specials where you can ride to games from WPB and FTL and have the train leave as soon as everyone gets shuttled back to the station from the game.

They are now doing test runs/training between West Palm Beach and Cocoa to get their people acclimated with the route in advance of opening. "The company expects the extension, which is 70% built, to be completed by the end of this year, Ben Porritt, senior vice president of corporate affairs, said by phone on Monday."

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-ne-brightline-starting-crew-tests-20220111-i5dowrdwnvekvjqlukvrzxwcey-story.html


thelakelander

  • The Jaxson
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33249
    • Modern Cities
Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #418 on: January 21, 2022, 01:42:19 PM »
I flew out of Orlando recently, they are pretty far along on the stretch paralleling the Beach Line.
"A man who views the world the same at 50 as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” - Muhammad Ali

tufsu1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11307
Re: Brightline ready to expand rail system to Tampa
« Reply #419 on: January 21, 2022, 02:27:56 PM »
Next up is the battle of how to get to I-4 from the Orlando airport. I understand that, like with high speed rail, things are heating up again in the Disney vs. I-Drive/Universal routing battle.